The report does not say they are players.

regardless if my wife voluntarily “fucks” me or not, there is no reason why these two innocent guys should be kicked out of school, have their future pro careers hindered and face jail time because this girl is embarrased for doing something she apparently does on a weekly basis.

*f’ed in the butt but not having any discomfort make it sound like shes a pro

This line of the alleged victim in the police report also probably raised some doubt: [she said "So you can be done whenever you want but don't even ask if I'm done?"]

Yep. Exactly Jacob.

this is not a story, since it reveals no real news. I read the entire police report. Since it is 60% blacked out, it is HARDLY a credible source. This will be a story IF there are charges filed and arrests made. Until then, this is only a slap in the face to the MSU basketball program, which is exactly what I assume is the intention of this story and its “reporter”.

Jack Ebling's Take on this story: http://www.webwiseforradio.com/site_files/368/Media/9-29-10_Segment%201.mp3

A great counter to this “breaking news”: http://isportsweb.com/2010/09/29/michigan-messenger-gossips-about-michigan-state-basketball-players/

The DUKE LACROSSE scandal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_University_students_rape_accusation_case

PS. i posted this same stuff on “The Only Colors” after they reported this on their “pro-MSU site”. Not only did they delete all the above comments posted here, by they shut down the comments on the story once people started turning on the report as BS, pointless, or muckraking without evidence and “innocent until proven guilty” stuff.

I am disappointed with whatever national site posted this story, but take pride in ESPN, sporting news, cbs, Rivals and others for not carrying this “story” until charges are made and players are named. Shame on The Only Colors for posting this, not allowing opposing opinions to be posted and refusing to take the story off their site until conclusive evidence surfaces.

Okay so, to make sure I'm clear, your answers are as follows:

“And were you there?” No. (Good answer, it'd be really awkward if you said yes.)

“Do you know that she wasn't raped?” Reasonable doubt. (Okay, I *think* I get what you were trying to say there. You were trying to say that there is reasonable doubt in this case, which leads you believe she was not raped. Am I right?)

“Are you mentally not all there?” Yes. (Yeah…I'm not touching this one.)

ditto

point in case: this website will be sued by MSU for giving away the names of the accused (not literally, but leaving enough of their clues unblocked to realize its 2 of three black underclassmen who live in the dorms).

— the girl was either 21 years old, or was drinking illegally (no record of here BAL from her blood test taken during her rape physical), thus older and hopefully wiser and more responsible than these 19 year old boys.

— she didnt live there and was in their room. she made no attempt to leave, undressed herself without coercion (unless the boys masters of the Jedi mind tricks or she has no willpower at all).

— both statements made it sound like the initial sex was consensual and somewhere along the way, she wanted to stop, but apparently demanding they stop or screaming in a building full of hundreds of other students never crossed her mind.

—according to both statements there were no threats of violence or blackmail, or physical force or overpowerment. The girl used words in her statement like “felt” and “believed”.

- apparently most people have never been in those tiny dorms. i have and there is barely enough room for 3 people to stand in there without someone blocking the doorway, especially if 2 of those people are over 200 lbs and over 6'5.

— most rapes are by people who cannot be identified. The fact that these guys didnt know this girl but she knew them doesnt help her story. Especially since the scene of the “crime” was in their dormroom, again, not the MO of rapists.

—she VOLUNTARILY went to their room alone, intoxicated, and removed her clothing, and didnt object to the proposal of sex since she didnt leave or firmly reject the notion.

— this is an insult to real rape victims. the ones that fought hard to prosecute real criminals that sought out victims in remote places and forced horrible sexual acts on random women for personal gratification or domination, usually under the threat of physical harm. This case is not like that at all.

—- this is a case of stupid, possibly drunk college kids, screwing around and one of them developing a conscience or sense of regret sometime either during sex or afterward and wanting revenge of some sorts t justify their feelings. This is a disgrace and mockery to “real” rape victims.

— this whole thing is a joke, and i would be surprised if MSU DIDNT sure this website for posting the police report and this girl for false accusations.

Thanks for saving everyone the time and $20 to FOIA the police report. Amazingly people up in East Lasing think FOIA documents can not be published. FOIA stands for Freedom of Information Act. The Michigan Messenger has no control over what information was or was not redacted from the police report. A FOIA document received from a public agency is by definition public information. As crazy as it sounds to a few people public information can be made available to the public. Just cool off and accept the fact the identity of the two suspects nicknamed Smirk and Corrob is now yesterday’s news.

Try reading the report, and then excluding all the evidence that is just from her testimony, since that isn't enough in the court of law.

After the “assault,” she said …
“so you can be done whenever you want but don't even ask when i'm done?”

So… she was pissed they ended early? After a rape?

Also, a neighbor heard a woman moaning, which indicates consensual sex (if she was being brutally and forcefully raped as she claims… you really think they would hear moaning?). Not 100% evidence of innocence, but better CORROBORATING evidence than the “victim” has.

Finally, think about how hard it would be to successfully rape a chick IN A FULL DORMITORY (trust me, the dorm where the basketball players live, those walls are paper thin). You would have to literally prevent her from screaming the whole time (which she never accused them of doing, only “intimidating” her), because ANY SCREAM would alert the neighbors, anyone in the hall, etc etc. I can't even play music at 1am on most thursdays without the neighbors complaining, and these guys raped a chick without anyone hearing? Come on…

If she is 100% on this, she'll get an attorney, and she'll file civil charges herself. But she won't, because this is bullshit.

The item in the police report where she complains about the male being done and not asking her if she were finished, throws up a huge red flag for the prosecutor. How do you cross-examine that one in court?

Dude you need to STFU “before this gets out of hand”. READ the article and the Police Reports. I think you'll find the answers to your questions.

You do realize that the two men have been interviewed by the police. In fact, one of them corroborated the victim's story. They also stated in the introduction that they “redacted” (that means removed btw, since you clearly don't know that) the names of the accused and the victim. I'll get to the why of this in a minute.

It doesn't go into detail as to just how “drunk” she was. It says she was drinking. Drinking does not equal wasted. Some people, even college students, have something called “restraint” which allows them to stop after a few drinks. For example, I have consumed alcohol on numerous occasions in my adult life and never once have I reached a state where I could not accurately describe my physical surroundings and the activities in that environment.

Even sober, most women would have a hard time stopping two men, both of substantially larger size, from doing whatever they wanted. People talk about the “fight or flight” but the reality is that there is always the third option: “freeze”. If a person cannot reasonably fight back, or flee, they will freeze. This is a naturally occurring, self-preserving behavior. If she fights back, she risks them hurting her much worse, or possibly killing her. As her report indicates, flight was removed as an option by their behavior. She did what she had to in order to survive this encounter.

Going to a private room with two men DOES NOT equal consent, it never has and it never will.

MSU Athletic Department has no grounds for legal action, precisely BECAUSE Michigan Messenger (and the other publications that are finally picking this story up) has not published the names of the athletes. Even then, the Athletic Department would have no grounds. The players would, since charges have not currently been filed. Unless they publish something stating that the MSU Athletic Department raped this woman, or that they deliberately interfered with the investigation, they have crossed no lines. Nor are they anywhere near “thin ice legally”. IN FACT, they are exercising their constitutional right to freedom of speech and freedom of the press.

In short: stop victim blaming, your misogyny is showing.

Sincerely,
Julia
Future Attorney

P.S. Please learn to use the written word properly. I realize that typos happen, but you have far too many in both of your posts for it to be a simple mistake.

ah, a lesbian. that clears things up nicely. I figure than that you would have more sympathy for the guys in this case since you can more easily associate with them and the way “women” send mixed signals…

It's people like you and this girl that keep real rape victims from going to the police. This girl is basically doing that. She isnt a victim. She is a false accuser. It makes me sad for anybody who is really raped. Because the girls who cry wolf like this one for a quick 15 minutes of fame hurt a lot of people.

“(grammatical errors are your's)”

*and this one is yours

Are you really going that route Nicholas? Are you really claiming that anti-rape advocates are preventing rape victims from reporting?

You do not, in fact cannot, know whether this girl is or isn't a victim. Instead you leap to the defense of the men and blame the woman. Typical.

Your misogyny is showing as well.

What about all the male police officers who recommended pressing charges? If the opinions of female ADAs are enough to prove “false accusation,” why aren't the opinions of male police officers enough to consider the possibility that two cocky college kids committed rape? Reducing this discussion to a battle-of-the-sexes is absurdly ignorant.

Aren't you precious. You tell Julia to keep her opinion to herself while not commenting on the 3rd grade blather and name calling above. How charmingly paternalistic! Also, you might want to check your grammar while you are telling others to check your spelling, unless the irony is a value added service.

There are three male and two female police officers' names in the report.

Do you even know what Misogyny means Julia? Seriously. I am far from that.

Nice.

You know, for an attorney, you resort to petty name calling an awful lot.

Maybe you just aren't a very good attorney. I know a couple attorneys like you. Hell, I'm related to one.

Well you clearly fooled me. And yes, I do. Do you? Misogyny is the hatred of women. And only someone who hates women could so firmly believe that a woman he does not know is nothing more than a fame-seeking whore out to wreck innocent men's lives.

It is quite presumptive of you to assume I am your victim.

Fool, you mentioned “reasonable doubt”. Reasonable doubt only applies to cases that are brought before a jury. In order for that to happen, the prosecutor has to at least make an effort to indict the accused. That's why this is outrageous- because the DA won't prosecute a rape.

I am often skeptical about allegations leveled against public figures, but upon review of the police report, I think this case at least warrants an indictment.

How anyone could read this police report and not find reason to seek an indictment escapes me.

…
How do we fix this? Be informed about the political candidates you vote for next month. DAs are elected. Many of us vote for these officials along party lines, or we skip the decision altogether. I don't k now when this DA is up for re-election, but something tells me he/she is PANDERING TO MICHIGAN STATE BASKETBALL FANS FOR SUPPORT. What a shame.

woww…do you not find that offensive?

*you're*

Hard to do when I don't eat Twinkies and don't have cable. Again, another amazing use of your powers to know absolutely nothing about me.

Nice to see that advanced legal training come into play. Is this how you win in the courtroom too? Are you even allowed IN a courtroom, Mr. Attorney?

By the way, it is spelled “waste”.

Ad Hominem

Ad Hominem.

Your court cases must be fascinating, in that horrific-can't-look-away sort of way.

Ad Hominem.

Don't work at Walmart.

And it is *you're*. Again. *sigh*

Ad Hominem

You assume I would *want* to be.

I appreciate this comment. A lot.

Ad Hominem

Ad Hominem.

“Do you usually not have to convince a guy to “make love” to you when you want to but he doesnt?”

What was that comment if not an attack on my sexuality? Your comment assumes that I am unattractive to the point of having to coerce someone into fucking me. You are wrong by the way, all of my sexual partners have consented with very clear enthusiasm.

Ad Hominem.

Paralegal Julia,

Michigan Messenger will have a defamation of character case on their hands if they keep this up. There are only 8 black players on the basketball team (MM “forgot” to cross out the race of the accused in the police report) and the number of black players with tattoos on their forearms (another thing MM “forgot” to cross out) is limited. Even worse, one can guess the length of their name by what was crossed out and one can assume that the accused are not freshman if they have known their suitemate for 3 months. If anyone knows any players that live in Wonders, they're automatically suspects. This is not fair to any of the players on the team, especially since no charges have been filed. This is poor journalism. Police reports are not meant to be posted as “news” on a public website even if they can be received from the FIA. Anyone can go to the police and make a report about anything- that doesn't make it true or newsworthy. If I was any one of the black players on the team, I would sue MM collectively ASAP and win. Good luck in law school.

1) youve done nothing but lead me to believe your sexual orientation to be anything but hetero since youve started posting.

2) i never assumed, nor stated your need to convince a man to have sex with you, which means you must be under 30 years of age, and your hormones have not peaked yet. i simply stated you must not know men, clearly, because every man who is not a virgin has had to convince a woman to have sex, at least once.

3) the only thing i DID assume lesbians had in common with men was their attraction to women and having to decode their advances and signals.

thanks you for pointing out you argumentative futility.

…I'm not a paralegal and I'm not exactly sure why you believe I am.

And I'm not sure why you are clearly attempting to bait me, when I took no objections to your post when you posted it in the first place.

1) You assume that not wanting to sleep with men assumes that I want to sleep with women. It is not my fault you have a narrow view of human sexuality.

2) Yes, you did. In fact, that is *exactly* what you said. Shall I quote it for you again? Here: “Do you usually not have to convince a guy to “make love” to you when you want to but he doesnt?” (grammatical errors are your's). And I know many men, none of whom have had to coerce women to have sex with them. I've said this before, yet you continue to argue that I simply “don't know men” (which I am taking to mean you believe I live in some sort of vacuum).

3) You assume that everyone who is attracted to women sees them as difficult to understand. They don't. You see, some have the ability to listen.

I never admitted that. I simply stated that I took no objection, which simply means I did not speak up. Silence is not consent.

Ad Hominem.

Ah and here we see some true colors coming through. I wondered how long it would take someone to declare me a terrorist.

You haven't backed up any of your's either and they were pretty substantial. You did accuse every man in existence of being a rapist (something I did not, contrary to what some on this board seem to believe).

silence is also not objection, the main point of this whole little story

god i hope so. otherwise i was way off, and now assume you are a parrot with an above-average intelligence.

1) rapist on the claim ANOTHER poster, other than yourself, made about anyone having to convince someone to have sex is a rapist.

2) i dont have the burden of evidence. you do. you are arguing for arrest and conviction. i am arguing there is not enough evidence to support your claims. god, what kind of law ARE you studying exactly?

1) Showing off your narrow view of the world, yet again. By the way, “whore” is not a sexuality. It is a misogynistic term developed to judge women by their sexuality.

2) I know the men in my life better than you do. Not all men are you and your cronies. Some of them are actually honest human beings. I have claimed only to know a select group of men, men who happen to contradict what you are saying. You are claiming to know ALL men. You've never met the men in my life. You know nothing about what they do or don't tell me.

3) Since you don't seem capable of getting it, I will rewrite my argument on this one. Woman-woman relationships, whether they are sexual or not, are nothing like man-woman relationships, again regardless of whether they are sexual or not. Men and women do not, cannot, relate to each other the way one woman can related to another man. Now, before you can jump down my throat with another imagined contradiction, that does not mean that men and women cannot be open with each other about things (such as whether they have ever raped someone!). What it does mean is that there is an innate level of fear felt by most women when dealing with men. Cases like this are the reason why. Coupled with global misogynistic systems and unchecked violence against women have created a sort of universal wariness. Now, I cannot say that *all* women experience this fear, but I have never met one who didn't admit to it when asked. Why? Because the history of the human race is a long, long list of men violating women. That history does not exist in woman-woman relationships. So no, lesbians have nothing in common with men.

And being married to a woman does not make you an expert on them. Nor does it somehow entitle you to claim that you have a damned clue what it is like to be a woman in this world.

What silence? I was responding Baller's post above, hence the delay.

Ad Hominem is a logical fallacy which involves avoiding the argument at hand in favor of insulting your opponent. For example:

Julia thinks that these athletes should be prosecuted.
Julia is “a ugly, smelly, stupid person who has not shaved down there since her poodle molested when she was 20.” (as stated by Jacob above).
Therefore Julia is wrong.

That is an Ad Hominem, an attack on the individual in an attempt to discredit their argument.

You keep right on believing that and you'll find yourself knee deep in a rape case yourself someday.

thanks wikipedia, are you as fluent in all latin or just the stuff that helps in avoiding defense of your position?

Richard, tell us the truth. Are you a troll?

She actually *has* stated she wishes charges to be filed. In case you couldln't be bothered to read the previous article, which included an interview with the accuser.

It's interesting that you're so focused on debasing this woman you've never met. Do you often obsess over women online or are you friends of one of the accused in this case and upset that anyone would defend the accuser?