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The Michigan Messenger going forward

By Staff Report | 11.16.11

I am writing today to announce the closure of the Michigan Messenger. After four years of operation in Michigan, the board of the American Independent News Network, has decided to shift publication of its news into a single site, The American Independent at Americanindependent.com. This is part of a shift in strategy, towards new forms [...]

Colorado-based abstinence program provided false and misleading information to Michigan students

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By Todd A. Heywood | 11.16.11

An abstinence-only presentation provided to numerous school districts in Calhoun and Eaton Counties in October of this year provided false and misleading information to students about HIV, experts allege.

Class action lawsuit filed against MERS over unpaid taxes

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By Todd A. Heywood | 11.15.11

Two county registers of deeds filed a class action lawsuit Monday on behalf of Michigan’s 83 counties alleging that the Mortgage Electronic Registration Services owes millions of dollars in property title transfer taxes.

Schuette fights important mercury regulations

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By Eartha Jane Melzer | 11.14.11

Despite evidence of the impact of mercury on children and public health, Michigan Attorney General Bill Schuette last month joined with 24 other state attorneys general in filing a lawsuit to scuttle new EPA regulations that would reduce mercury emissions from power plants.

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Local officials feel threatened by violent imagery

Rifle postings, vandalism fuel fear in wake of Giffords shooting
By Eartha Jane Melzer | 01.13.11 | 9:17 am

In the wake of the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in Arizona, a Traverse City Commissioner involved in gay rights issues says he’s worried about extreme rhetoric being used by those who oppose the recently enacted human rights ordinance.

In a unanimous vote in October the Traverse City Commission passed an ordinance making it illegal to fire or deny housing to someone on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity, becoming the 18th city in the Lower Peninsula to pass such a law.

Though the move received strong support from city residents, opponents of the measure call it “special rights for gays” and have vowed to seek its repeal in a referendum.

As a City Commissioner Jim Carruthers, an openly gay man, introduced the human rights ordinance and argued for its passage.

Paul Nepote, a retired industrial salesman and conservative activist, is a vocal opponent of the ordinance and a leader in the campaign to repeal it.

Last week on his Facebook page — Traverse City Against a Gay Agenda Ordinance — Nepote posted a video of men shooting at human shaped targets with a sniper rifle and a note — “I love this rifle!”

This posting, together with the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Tuscon) and others in Arizona last weekend, prompted Carruthers to go public with his concerns about the tone of the conversation around the human rights ordinance.

In an e-mail to his fellow city commissioners, local media, and the city police chief, Carruthers said:

“Considering what has taken place, I am going on record to say (as I have in the past) I personally as a political leader feel threatened by the extreme rhetoric that is being espoused by anti-gay hate groups in Traverse City toward people such as myself.”

“These people are unstable and I fear bad will come from them in the future,” he said. “ I fear more and more for my personal safety with such hateful people in our midst.”

“[Nepote] is using Photoshop and posting weird pictures of me with commentary about the gay commissioner and how wrong I am,” Carruthers told Michigan Messenger. He called Nepote a “freak” and a “troubled man.”

Nepote dismissed Carruthers concern.

“He’s so full of shit,” he said when asked about Carruthers comments. “If somebody was going to shoot him he’d be dead years ago.”

Nepote said that his enthusiasm for the assault rifle should not be seen as a sign that he is a violent person.

“There is an awful lot of people who think that the economy is going to go to hell and a lot of people are recommending not only that people stock pile food but that they buy guns and ammunition to protect their homes.”

Nepote said he has been insulted and threatened by people who disagree with his political views and that his son was denied a job because of his activism.

He said he’s been demonized at public forums and in letters to the editor by people who associate him with Fred Phelps.

“I feel nothing but disdain for people like [Phelps],” he said. “I just don’t want gays to indoctrinate my children.”

The rhetoric around the human rights ordinance is “stupid and out of control,“ he said, “but it is going to get heavier yet.”

But concerns over actions rather than words is not merely hypothetical in this situation. M’Lynn Hartwell, an openly gay woman and former Traverse City Human Rights Commissioner, said the outside of her house was vandalized twice during past campaigns over gay rights and two years ago she returned from vacation to find a bullet hole in the wall of her home.

Hartwell said that she thinks Carruthers’ concerns are reasonable and she said that she is trying to address concerns about the city human rights ordinance with information posted on TC Equality.org.

Traverse City Police Chief Mike Warren said he’d reviewed Nepote’s rifle posting and there’s nothing that can be done about it legally.

“What we have got here there isn’t any actions we can take,” he said.

Comments

  • Anonymous

    Curious that Eartha Jane refused to include in her obviously one-sided story the death threat against Mr. Nepote by a supporter of the “gay rights” ordinance, confirmed by police report. In a story obviously intended to equate enthusiasm for shooting sports and opposition to her political agenda as potentially violent, why fail to mention a threat of violence that has already taken place? Obvious why…

    And Eartha’s “news” story contributes to a climate of fear and “hate” that might encourage other mentally unstable or extreme supporters of the ordinance to resort to violence against Mr. Nepote and others who oppose it.

  • Anonymous

    Dear Traverse City Commissioners of all types including our almost invisible HRC :

    When did it become Traverse City Policy for a City Commissioner to respond, with destain, to a local Pastor who simply voiced his personal beliefs in a correspondence to the ” City Commission “, rejecting the Gay Special Rights Ordinance.
    The good Pastor should not have received a personal rebuke from “Gay” Commissioner Carruthers and his side-kick “Homosexual Activist” M’Lynn Hartwell.

    Who the hell does he think he is?
    His retort resembles a threat in response to the Pastor’s deeply held beliefs.
    Carruthers not only chastised the Pastor personally but also the Living Hope Church which is so much a part of Pastor Waldie’s life.
    Carruthers shows his total lack of, what it takes to be a Commissioner. What kind of fool would ask the question, ” Does this also mean heterosexuals can be converted to be homosexuals?”
    I don’t know why M’Lynn Hartwell is allowed to join into the fray, was there some election held by the City Commission giving her the authority to speak for the City Commission on all things “Gay”?
    Commissioner Carruthers can attack all the Pastors in town who share Pastor Waldie’s reservations about Homosexuality, but it will not change the fact that Commissioner Carruthers Ordinance has not improved “Gay Life” in Traverse City, but has sent the message that Traverse City is more interested in Homosexuality, then in Family Values.

    • Anonymous

      Oh how bored one must be to attack another human being for being gay.
      Family values, oh really..whats that mean? Who does that include? Not a gay person for sure. I hate morons who scream family values as if they have any…..family values means excepting all in your family….keep your eyes off other peoples families, gay, black, green, latino…..etc. I bet your white around 30ish christian of course and rednecked, and red in politics.

  • Anonymous

    Violence and bigotry aren’t family values.

  • Anonymous

    The arguments against the Traverse City Equal Opportunity Ordinance are pretty much the same that have been used in the past against other minority groups to deny them the opportunity to be equal members of society or to simply vote… be that people of color, women, Irish, other ethnicity’s or faiths… the dreaded “other” de jour at the moment appear to be the gay and lesbian community. It is unfortunate that these religious extremists have no tolerance for tolerance except when it comes to themselves. That they have no patience with choices until it comes to theirs. That they have no willingness to believe they may be wrong but they want us to accept silently the values alien to most of us that they espouse so loudly. They judge everyone by the rules of the Old Testament but demand the love of New Testament when it comes to themselves.

  • Anonymous

    I am sorry if Mr. Nepote has experienced a threat against his well being. During my service to the City, it was very disheartening to me to experience the bullying from people who were so extremist in their position and viewpoints that they chose to maliciously strike out at good people working selflessly for the benefit of our community as Commissioners. I understand that people don’t always agree with one another. I understand that we may experience fear and frustration from time to time, but the appropriate response to our personal feelings isn’t bullying and threats against others. There is no need for threats or bullying here. We can all state out positions and present our facts with civility and respect, and decide this matter through the process of informed decision consensus based making.

  • Anonymous

    In response to richg .. the appropriate space to express Pauls enthusiasm for shooting sports is on his personal Facebook page, and NOT on the pages of the Facebook Group where he is arguing his position against the Traverse City Equal Opportunity Ordinance. Perhaps it was intended as a threat. Perhaps it was simply a lapse of good judgement on Paul’s part. In any event he removed the weapon video and he is providing information that is a part of the overall discussion around this issue. I would encourage all people to read as much as possible from every perspective. To seek clarity and understanding, and to think for themselves as individuals if they are called upon to make a decision in the voting booth. Democracy … use it … or lose it.

  • Anonymous

    Dear Paul, I joined the conversation with the City, because I was invited in to do so via a CC. I may have been invited to join in the conversation because much of my undergraduate and graduate studies were in theology and comparative religion. And my post graduate work was in research. My son is pursuing his doctorate in religion. It is an area of interest that is very important to my family.

    My response to Paster Waldie was intended to respectfully point out to him that his “interpretations” we not held by a majority in the faith community. I respect his right to believe and preach as it does, right up until that point where it imposes upon other people of faith who worship differently. It is important to me to respect all beliefs and faiths, and not interfere with their worship. FACT: There are over 34,000 separate Christian groups, roughly grouped into 270 larger groups that share substantially common tenets, and only about one-third of the people in the world worship as Christians. SOURCE: World Christian Encyclopedia. You may purchase this Encyclopedia here: http://tinyurl.com/45t7xpq

    • Anonymous

      Dear M’lynn,
      Just to clarify your post, who invited you to join the attack on the good pastor? Was it the City Manager, Mayor, some or all of the Traverse City Commissioners, or as I suspect, our one and only “Gay” Commissionr Jim Carruthers?

      • Anonymous

        I am not aware of any “attack” on any pastor.

        • Anonymous

          Have you forgotten your conversation with Pastor Carey Waldie of Living Hope Church? And your bogus remarks on the COR, Coalition on Revival. On 09/08/2010 at 09:13 AM. And how can you forget the break-in at Pastor Waldie’s Church the day after he appeared as a sub for Gary Glennn at the first Homosexual forum at NMC? I believe the damage to his Church ran in the thousands of dollors.

          • Anonymous

            On 9/7/2010 2:34 PM, Commissioner Jim Carruthers wrote:
            Pastor Waldie,

            Blaa – Blaaa I will not force people back in the closet due to hate and discrimination such as yours. I’m glad to know many other church communities in the world, the United States and yes, in Traverse City whole-heartily support all people including gays and lesbians into there fold.

            Strange words from a former Human Rights Commissioner turned City Commissioner.
            This is the Same “Homosexual Commissioner” who told a fellow “Christian HRC Commissioner” to “shove your Bible up your Ass”.

          • Anonymous

            I know nothing of this break in your refer to. This is first time news for me. As for the Assembly of God reference, I provided citations to the original source.

          • Anonymous
          • Anonymous
          • Anonymous

            Also, as I am sure you are aware, the “American Family Association” sat on the Steering Committee of the Coalition on Revival and Signed the COR Manifesto in 1986. In case you are unaware of this, you may follow this link: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Coalition_on_Revival

          • Anonymous

            It’s all about being afraid of voters and disparaging their right to vote.

          • Anonymous

            It’s all about being afraid of voters and disparaging their right to vote.

          • Anonymous

            My friends, family, and every Traverse City resident who are respectfully requesting their “Right To Vote” are paying a terrible price while asking for one of our countries most valued gifts, a vote. In response to our opposition, we are called haters, homophobes, and worst of all; we are being associated with Fred Phelps Jr, one of the most despised human beings in the country.

            Traverse City citizens are not paid elected officials, we simply pay the bills. I think it is time for those in government who know your fellow citizens are no threat to our public officials, are not haters, and who should realize by now, we have a constitutional right to disagree with a piece of legislation without being attacked by the very people we elected to protect us.

          • Anonymous

            Do you really think that any of the people of Traverse City have forgotten that you were a ringleader in all the craziness we experienced a decade ago. I don’t think so.Your past, and your close affiliations with known ‘hate groups’, have come back to haunt you as an inconvenient truth.

          • Anonymous

            Haunt is not the proper word. I don’t have a personal dog in this fight. The agenda you are promoting is nothing more then a house of cards. The Christians prayed for your souls in earnest a decade ago. Not anymore, it took them ten years to learn, prayers for the souls of the damned are wasted on those poor souls who have never believed in God. The prize has never been total acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle. The real prize is your soul. Normal folks are not the true haters, it is so easy to transfer the hatred of your lifestyle to the hatred of those who once loved and prayed for your salvation. One good example of the hate which you and most of your activists project, is the total change in your demeanor. I have known you for almost fifteen years and in my opinion, you have become the thing you worked so hard to change by example. Nothing personal but I think you have traded your passion for hate. And that disappoints me greatly.

          • Anonymous

            Paul, simply put, I defend the diversity that is America, including religious choice. Nobody has yet convinced me that women (who once were denied the right to vote) have caused harm to our republic. Likewise the racial wars were fought to right an injustice perpetrated upon folks that were, and continue to be, denied the full enjoyment of citizenship. Now you, and your associates, are working to prevent people who may be perceived as being gay and lesbian from having the same opportunity in employment and accommodation that you already enjoy and benefit from. These are good people who have the same human needs as you for gainful employment, roofs over their heads, and food in their belly. I will advocate for them, as I advocate for all people who suffer under injustice.

            Blessings be.

          • Anonymous

            Paul, I do not hate you, I do not hate anybody. I have attempted to point out to you that your opinion in this matter, however passionate and personal it may be for you, is held by a minority of people. Most churches openly welcome and embrace all people. Even Jesus had nothing to say on the subject in the Bible (according my my red letter edition). He did have plenty to say about love however. Blessings be.

          • Anonymous

            Nepote stated:

            My friends, family, and every Traverse City resident who are respectfully requesting their “Right To Vote” are paying a terrible price while asking for one of our countries most valued gifts, a vote. In response to our opposition, we are called haters, homophobes, and worst of all; we are being associated with Fred Phelps Jr, one of the most despised human beings in the country.

            You at least demonstrate some combination of ignorance and hatred toward founding American values. A primary motivation for creating a Constitution was to protect individual rights from the tyranny of majority votes. We also established a branch of government to defend against government encroachments against our rights as well – the judiciary.

            James Madison, the architect of the Constitution feared these tyrannies equal to that of a monarchy which is why he didn’t recommend a simple democracy at the Constitutional Convention but instead successfully advocated we form a constitutional republic. That constitutional republic employs checks and balances as a method to defend individual rights and liberties from what Madison defined as the ‘temporal passions’ of majorities seeking to deny minorities their equal rights as you attempt to do in regarding these matters.

            From this perspective our individual right to vote is sometimes inferior to individual liberty rights when it comes to whose rights government will protect. Should government protect your right to deny others their rights, or should government protect gay people’s right to have their rights defended equal to others? That’s a no-brainer from my perspective. To not defend gays ability to exercise their rights equally and enjoy equal government protection of their rights would cause us to lose our moral claim of being a free people given the fact that morally repugnant people like you exist who seek to use the power of government to deny the hated ‘other’ their rights. So not only are you advocating an anti-American, anti-liberty position, you’re advocating a point which is morally repugnant relative to the standard of enlightenment values that differentiated what our framers established from the medieval ignorance and hatred that we advanced beyond deployed in old Europe’s theocratic monarchies.

            The framers knew that mere ratification of the Constitution wouldn’t immediately result in everyone exercising their respective rights equally or insure a government that properly defended the exercise of those rights. That’s one reason they deployed the phrase “in order to form a more perfect union” in the Preamble of that Constitution and a judiciary. Because hatred and ignorance like yours doesn’t die out merely because a government drafts laudable principles and establishes them as the law of the land. Your hatred towards gay people and your desire to employ democratic means to deny them their equal rights provides an illustrative example of why we need a Constitution that demands government protect our reserved individual rights even against democratic majorities.

            This principle you seek to violate was reinforced when a part of the Bill of Rights James Madison introduced into the 1st Congress was not passed until after the Civil War. The applicable section of the 14th Amendment:

            No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

          • Anonymous

            Paul,

            There is a published link between the Coalition on Revival (COR) and the Assemblies of God Church.

            There is a published link between the American Family Association and the COR.

            Pastor Waldies Living Hope Church IS an Assemblies of God Church. http://ag.org/top/church_directory/

            Logic and research would lead one to believe that Pastor Waldie thereby embraced the COR.

            COR: http://65.175.91.69/Reformation_net/default.htm

            Pastor Waldie replied in an email to me “I have been in the Assemblies of God organization for over 30 years and I have never heard of this “Coalition on Revival.” Nor do I hold to their teachings.”

            Paul, I accept Pastor Waldies word on this as a man of God, and was relieved to hear this from him.

            It makes no sense to me why you keep regurgitating this conversation.

  • Anonymous

    All families embrace “family values” and hold those we love dear to us close in our hearts and cherish them in our spirit…

    “Family Values” are not the exclusive domain of bigots and extremists.

  • Anonymous

    Paul,

    I will always treat you in an honest and authentic manner offering you all of the dignity and respect you deserve. As a part of my career in communication I have worked as a paralegal and professional researcher. If you choose to pursue this referendum, you may be called upon to defend yourself against every word that you have ever published, and every action that you have ever taken. This will be equally true for your associates and affiliates. My place in all of this is not to debate you, that will be for someone else at another time.

    Once the good people of Traverse City have the opportunity to weigh all of the facts and evidence related to this issue, I have faith that people will make the right decision for our community, in much the same manner that a jury does in a courtroom.

  • Anonymous

    Clarification. My role in responding to your referendum initiative is pretty much limited to research and data analysis. I have no interest in debating with you here.

    If you would care to, I would sit down with you over coffee, or lunch, and have a respectful conversation as long as it remains civil. I have always felt that we have been cordial toward one another. I value that, and hope that we can continue to disagree in an agreeable manner.

    There will be others who engage in public debate over this issue, I suspect.

    Blessings be

  • Anonymous

    Paul Nepote:

    “I feel nothing but disdain for people like [Phelps] . . . I just don’t want gays to indoctrinate my children.

    This is arguably incoherent.

    First off, Mr. Nepote and his children continue to enjoy the government protected right to join whatever church he wants as long as they’ll have them. There are many denominations whose members advocate we hate and persecute gays. This hatred spreads across religions as well. For example, if Mr. Nepote is a Muslim he can find Mosques who promote ostracizing gays equal to that of many Christian denominations who do the same. Church members’ religious freedom rights and rights of association are government-protected; even if these churches prohibit gay people to join merely because they’re gay and protects their right to expel gays from their membership merely for coming out of the closet.

    So Mr. Nepote can exploit religious organizations who hate gays to indoctrinate his children in hopes they’ll hate gays and discriminate against them like their father. In fact most states have unchallenged laws that explicitly protect the right of these churches to hate gays over the right of gays to join or even end government subsidies to these churches. These laws have normally been enacted when the states pass laws ending unconstitutional discrimination against gays.

    Second Mr. Nepote has the government-protected right to send his children to private schools which indoctrinate their students with the type of hatred, prejudice, and discrimination Mr. Nepote demonstrates and advocates.

    When it comes to public education, it’s important to note that the public schools are the government and therefore have a legal obligation to defend the Constitution and the laws. To some extent we do indoctrinate children on certain subjects, the relevant one here is that our form of government and the underlying principles are superior to other forms of governments and their attendant principles. For example we teach students that governments which protect the equal liberty rights of its citizens are superior to theocracies and other authoritarian forms of the government. These authoritarian forms of government have and continue to deprive people of their rights if their ideological dogma and the claims of divine revelation by its leaders and followers assert the majority should instead discriminate against “the other” in its population just like Mr. Nepote wishes our government do. Our schools teach that our form is superior consistent with enlightenment thinking which has largely supplanted much of the evil promoted by religions when they joined hands with monarchies to control governments in the Dark Ages and pre-enlightenment period. Mr. Nepote has every right to advocate we reverse our moral progression from those times by instead using government to discriminate against gays in hopes of pushing them back in the closet so his kids aren’t exposed to ‘the gay’. But our government has a constitutional obligation to defend the Constitution’s equal rights limitations on its power against individual freedom which obviously extends to gays since they too are people.

    So the question when it comes to public education is, whose dogma do we promote? I’d argue we shouldn’t indoctrinate any kid ever but instead stick to educating alone. However if we are going to continue to indoctrinate kids on some matters, I’d prefer we promote the principles buttressing our Constitution rather than the empirically falsified perspective of people who hate gays and who also falsely believe “the gay” is infectious and defectively assert being gay makes one less worthy. The latter position which Mr. Nepote advocates is clearly unconstitutional, but I’d also argue so is any form of indoctrination, though the former is certainly far more objectively moral than Mr. Nepote’s repugnant hatred toward gays and desire to infect his children with that hatred.

    • Anonymous

      In reply to Mr.Heath’s assumptions that I spend my time teaching my four sons and six grandsons to hate homosexuals, the fact is that my sons were encouraged to find out for themselves why homosexuals have been labeled with yellow & black tape that reads “Caution Bio Hazard”. My sons and grandsons learned that your homosexual lifestyle is dangerous, unhealthy, life threatening, and downright frightening without any input from me. My youngest son worked as a DJ in our local gay bar until one of the patrons yanked out his penis on the dance floor in front of the DJ booth and fondled himself in front of him, lesson learned. My next oldest was working in the lunch facility at Sarah Lee. He had been having car problems and an older employee offered him a ride home when his car wouldn’t start. On the way home the driver asked my son if he would like a blow job. Lesson number two. I could go on and on with stories from doctors and nurses working in the emergency rooms at Munson Medical Center. For some reason one their favorite topics at social gatherings was trying to one up each other on the strange objects they had removed from Homosexual Rectums. One of my own personal everlasting examples is the eleven year old homosexual pedophile who was caught trying to force his penis into my four year old niece’s mouth. To make a long story short, there are a great many of the seven percent of our homosexual population that just don’t qualify for equal rights, not to mention Special Rights. You should be happy that you have the privilege of living in a country based on Christian values. Try teaching your homosexual agenda to school children in any Muslim country, and see where your gay rights get you.

  • Anonymous

    Mr. Nepote states:

    My sons and grandsons learned that your homosexual lifestyle is dangerous, unhealthy, life threatening, and downright frightening without any input from me.

    Wow. First I’m not a homosexual, merely someone who loves our founding values and the U.S. Constitution enough to speak-out against people like you that hate those values. Second, please provide citations that empirically validate your claims. We do know that homosexual children are at risk from bullying and shunning because of people like you who justify persecuting them.

    Nepote states:

    My youngest son worked as a DJ in our local gay bar until one of the patrons yanked out his penis on the dance floor in front of the DJ booth and fondled himself in front of him, lesson learned. My next oldest was working in the lunch facility at Sarah Lee. He had been having car problems and an older employee offered him a ride home when his car wouldn’t start. On the way home the driver asked my son if he would like a blow job.

    So heterosexuals never misbehave? Please provide empirical evidence which convincingly concludes that homosexuals abuse other people disproportional to heterosexuals. My studies of scientific articles on this topic find so no such evidence.

    Nepote states:

    For some reason one their favorite topics at social gatherings was trying to one up each other on the strange objects they had removed from Homosexual Rectums.

    This appears to be a fantastical assertion by you which you can’t possibly validate. How could the medical staff know those were “homosexual rectums” rather than people who were not homosexual? Or you really so ignorant that you are unaware of the fact that heterosexuals have anal sex as well? Or is your hatred is so deep you’re willing to dishonestly claim people with this condition are homosexual without any evidence at all?

    Nepote:

    One of my own personal everlasting examples is the eleven year old homosexual pedophile who was caught trying to force his penis into my four year old niece’s mouth.

    Science has not found homosexuals to be disproportionately pedophiles. Psychologist Dr. Gregory Herak (1):

    Other researchers have taken different approaches, but have similarly failed to find a connection between homosexuality and child molestation. Dr. Carole Jenny and her colleagues reviewed 352 medical charts, representing all of the sexually abused children seen in the emergency room or child abuse clinic of a Denver children’s hospital during a one-year period (from July 1, 1991 to June 30, 1992). The molester was a gay or lesbian adult in fewer than 1% in which an adult molester could be identified – only 2 of the 269 cases (Jenny et al., 1994). (2)

    Mr. Nepote, quoting anecdotes to argue it represents an entire population of people is a major defect in elementary thinking skills. It also suggests that your hatred for gays is so deep you’re more than willing to smear an entire group of people who are not prone to behave a manner you claim than heterosexuals. Your behavior says a lot about how irrational and hateful you are while providing no compelling evidence that your hatred of gays and your promotion we deny them equal rights is compelling.

    Nepote states:To make a long story short, there are a great many of the seven percent of our homosexual population that just don’t qualify for equal rights, not to mention Special Rights.

    Government doesn’t grant us our rights. We own our own rights – see the 9th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution and the Declaration of Independence as citations. Government instead has delegated powers from ‘the people’ which require them to either limit, prohibit, or defend certain rights. So without providing any examples of when government is justified in denying certain gays the exercise of their rights it’s impossible to discern the legitimacy of your claim regarding when certain people’s rights are justifiably limited or prohibited. In addition please provide an example of gay rights organizations demanding “special rights”. From my perspective these groups are fighting to gain equal rights to heterosexuals, such as the right to marry. I don’t perceive any organized effort for gays to demand the protection of rights not protected in other groups.

    Nepote:

    You should be happy that you have the privilege of living in a country based on Christian values.

    That’s a false statement. Our country’s laws are based on the U.S. Constitution, which is a wholly secular document. The underlying values are far more closely aligned with the values expressed by enlightenment thinkers who were the primary sources of values used to create this secular document. Certainly some of those values are consistent with some Christians’ values, at least those who don’t possess the type of hatred you demonstrate. But even a casual reading of the development of the Constitution reveals very little influence coming from Christian theology and instead a dominant volume of influence coming from James Madison’s studies of past republics and enlightenment thinking in general. You appear every bit as misinformed regarding American history as you do regarding the U.S. Constitution and what science understands regarding sexual identification.

    Lastly a lot of Christians despise your type of demonstrated hatred towards gays, so it’s not like your position is monolithic within Christianity but is instead an embarrassment to them.

    And I’m very happy to live in this country precisely because it is based on secular values which protect individual liberty from theocratic bigots like yourself who seek to leverage the power of government to persecute whole groups of people they irrationally hate. Your type of hateful bigoted advocacy is a legacy of the Dark Ages I’m happy to know is quickly dying out. In fact no group previously discriminated against is enjoying poll trends showing people increasingly favoring the equal protection of rights. Both black people and women had a far longer fight once they went public in fight to secure their equal rights.

    Citations:
    1) Gregory Herek, Ph.D., is a Professor of Psychology at the University of California at Davis writing @: http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

    2) Carole Jenny MD, MBA, Thomas A. Roesler MD, , Kimberly L. Poyer MSW, PEDIATRICS Vol. 94 No. 1 July 1994, pp. 41-4, “Are Children at Risk for Sexual Abuse by Homosexuals?” Link: http://goo.gl/i2fWC

  • Anonymous

    Reasons for Opposition

    On Tuesday, November 2, 2011, the voters of Traverse City will vote on an amendment to the Ordinances of the City of Traverse City relating to the definition of “Discriminate” and “Discrimination” as those terms are used in the City’s Employment and Fair Housing Law.

    The definitions would be expanded to prohibit the denial of housing to persons because of among other classifications, their “gender, gender expression, and gender identity.”

    While decent housing is a right everyone should enjoy, and while Citizens of Traverse City assert that persons with a homosexual orientation should not be subject to unjust discrimination, the expansion of the definition of discrimination as contained in the proposed ordinance is cause for concern.

    If the ordinance passes, sexual orientation will be elevated to the status of race and religion in our constitutionally protected classes.

    In 1992 the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in Rome addressed this issue with the following observations:

    “Homosexual persons have the same rights as all persons, including the right of not being treated in a manner which offends their personal dignity. Among other rights, all persons have the right to work, to housing, etc, (No 12).

    However, “including ‘homosexual orientation’ among the considerations on the basis of which it is illegal to discriminate can easily lead to regarding homosexuality as a positive source of human rights. The passage from the recognition of homosexuality as a factor on which basis it is illegal to discriminate can easily lead to the legislative protection and promotion of homosexuality. A person’s homosexuality would be invoked in opposition to alleged discrimination, and thus the exercise of rights would be defended precisely via the affirmation of the homosexual condition instead of in terms of a violation of basic human rights” (No 13).

    “Sexual orientation does not constitute a quality comparable to race, ethnic background, etc,in suspect to non-discrimination” (No 10).

    The concerns expressed by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith are valid concerns. Careful consideration needs to be to the effect that passage of such laws will have on family life, understood on the basis of the marriage of one man and one woman, and the public morality of the entire civil society on the basis of fundamental moral values.

    These concerns should cause all Traverse City voters to seriously question the appropriateness of the proposed legislation.

    • Anonymous

      So the Catholic Church agrees that homosexuals have a legal right not to be discriminated against in housing and employment, yet you cite them in opposition to a law that would protect those rights. Doesn’t seem consistent to me.

  • Anonymous

    It is in fact the “gay” rights laws
    Themselves that discriminate!

    The fact is “sexual orientation ordinances”, discriminate against people on the basis of religious belief, and are a threat to religious freedom. They place Christian and Muslim public school children in the cross hairs. For the last 10 years, homosexual activists in Michigan have been promoting pro-homosexual language more often than the rest of the other 49 states combined; that’s no accident, and we’ve been aggressive about trying to block this agenda: every time we challenge the opposition to identify ONE PERSON, who’s been BULLYED, FIRED, or REFUSED SERVICE in a restaurant, or been evicted from their apartment or home because of what kind of sex they are having; and in 10 years they’ve never been able to provide EVEN ONE EXAMPLE; and yet there have been dozens of examples, of actual discrimination against those persons who have voiced their religious beliefs on the dangers of homosexual behavior. So WHO are the DISCRIMINATORS?? It is the HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVIST MOVEMENT. And who is standing up AGAINST DISCRIMINATION?? It’s those of us who continue to say that marriage ought to be only between one man and one woman; and that people ought to be FREE TO PRACTICE THEIR RELIGIOUS CONVICTIONS without fear of being FIRED, or KICKED OUT OF SCHOOL, or STRIPPED OF THEIR TAX STATUS, or facing FINES and PUNISHMENT. If TCAPS continues down the path of promoting the homosexual activists agenda, you will be causing great harm to all classes of students listed above. There is no reason for TCAPS to create a Special Protected Class of Student based on their same sex or gender identity abnormalities.

     
    Paul James Nepote

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