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	<title>Comments on: Three Michigan GOP reps vote to protect gays against bias</title>
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		<title>By: chetly</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/407/three-michigan-gop-reps-vote-to-protect-gays-against-bias/comment-page-1#comment-1592</link>
		<dc:creator>chetly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 23:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michiganmessenger.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=407#comment-1592</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Siksai is wrong, and clearly either naive or spinning&lt;/strong&gt; With respect to Siksai, the reasoning here is just plain wrong.&#160; Just as wrong as Gary Glenn&#039;s.&#160; Since this is a column and you mention &quot;Rhetoric &amp; Reality&quot;, let&#039;s dispel the damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don&#039;t rhetoric.&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;First, Miller&#039;s seat is considered very safe, and McCotter&#039;s somewhat safe, even under the worst of political tides.&#160; Yes, Knollenberg is in a targeted district - but there&#039;s no domino of the type Siksai suggests.&#160; But Knollenberg has in the past deviated from the Gary Glenn scorecard - on the federal gay marriage ban amendment in 04 he voted no - and that was long before there was any anti-Republican wave. In fact, it was a risky thing to do at the time. If you notice the pattern here - the metro-area Republicans voted one way, and the others the other way.&#160; There are logical demographic &amp; electoral reason for this, as well as the fact that this bill also had a provision in it that prohibits &quot;preferential treatment&quot; for gays along with prohibiting discrimination against them -- indeed, as a matter of conscience, that clause alone makes this piece of legislation reasonable, and a mirror of the principles embodied in the MCRI-Proposal 2 of 2006 applying to race, ethnicity, and gender.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;Indeed, this law is as much a triumph for the anti-preferential treatment model of anti-discrimination law as it is anything else.&#160; You&#039;re right - it doesn&#039;t relate to same-sex marriage, but since it prohibits preferential treatment, and is limited to employment law, I don&#039;t think it presents a horrible precedent.&#160; On the other hand, I would sympathize with Gary Glenn if he were to frame the issue as a matter of First Amendment associational and religious choice.&#160; Of course, that argument was made in the 1960s against the Civil Rights Act dealing with racial discrimination.&#160; So long as this law only prohibits employment discrimination though, and it clearly also prohibits preferential treatment, I&#039;m with Knollenberg philosophically (the logical basis for that is complicated, but involves contract theory and government neutrality). I suspect that these folks might actually think some of these issues through when they vote - setting aside rhetoric and reality.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;Oh, and for the benefit of your editor, I&#039;ve worked for Knollenberg&#039;s son in the past, but might conceivably work for other &quot;conservatives&quot; adhering to Gary Glenn&#039;s position.&#160; I wonder if I&#039;ve damaged myself here.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;Finally, I&#039;m curious as to how long you gave the Washington offices to respond to your query.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Siksai is wrong, and clearly either naive or spinning</strong> With respect to Siksai, the reasoning here is just plain wrong.&nbsp; Just as wrong as Gary Glenn&#39;s.&nbsp; Since this is a column and you mention &#8220;Rhetoric &#038; Reality&#8221;, let&#39;s dispel the damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don&#39;t rhetoric.
<p>First, Miller&#39;s seat is considered very safe, and McCotter&#39;s somewhat safe, even under the worst of political tides.&nbsp; Yes, Knollenberg is in a targeted district &#8211; but there&#39;s no domino of the type Siksai suggests.&nbsp; But Knollenberg has in the past deviated from the Gary Glenn scorecard &#8211; on the federal gay marriage ban amendment in 04 he voted no &#8211; and that was long before there was any anti-Republican wave. In fact, it was a risky thing to do at the time. If you notice the pattern here &#8211; the metro-area Republicans voted one way, and the others the other way.&nbsp; There are logical demographic &#038; electoral reason for this, as well as the fact that this bill also had a provision in it that prohibits &#8220;preferential treatment&#8221; for gays along with prohibiting discrimination against them &#8212; indeed, as a matter of conscience, that clause alone makes this piece of legislation reasonable, and a mirror of the principles embodied in the MCRI-Proposal 2 of 2006 applying to race, ethnicity, and gender.</p>
<p>Indeed, this law is as much a triumph for the anti-preferential treatment model of anti-discrimination law as it is anything else.&nbsp; You&#39;re right &#8211; it doesn&#39;t relate to same-sex marriage, but since it prohibits preferential treatment, and is limited to employment law, I don&#39;t think it presents a horrible precedent.&nbsp; On the other hand, I would sympathize with Gary Glenn if he were to frame the issue as a matter of First Amendment associational and religious choice.&nbsp; Of course, that argument was made in the 1960s against the Civil Rights Act dealing with racial discrimination.&nbsp; So long as this law only prohibits employment discrimination though, and it clearly also prohibits preferential treatment, I&#39;m with Knollenberg philosophically (the logical basis for that is complicated, but involves contract theory and government neutrality). I suspect that these folks might actually think some of these issues through when they vote &#8211; setting aside rhetoric and reality.</p>
<p>Oh, and for the benefit of your editor, I&#39;ve worked for Knollenberg&#39;s son in the past, but might conceivably work for other &#8220;conservatives&#8221; adhering to Gary Glenn&#39;s position.&nbsp; I wonder if I&#39;ve damaged myself here.</p>
<p>Finally, I&#39;m curious as to how long you gave the Washington offices to respond to your query.</p>
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		<title>By: chetly</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/407/three-michigan-gop-reps-vote-to-protect-gays-against-bias/comment-page-1#comment-265</link>
		<dc:creator>chetly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michiganmessenger.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=407#comment-265</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Siksai is wrong, and clearly either naive or spinning&lt;/strong&gt; With respect to Siksai, the reasoning here is just plain wrong.&#160; Just as wrong as Gary Glenn&#039;s.&#160; Since this is a column and you mention &quot;Rhetoric &amp; Reality&quot;, let&#039;s dispel the damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don&#039;t rhetoric.&lt;p&gt;
First, Miller&#039;s seat is considered very safe, and McCotter&#039;s somewhat safe, even under the worst of political tides.&#160; Yes, Knollenberg is in a targeted district - but there&#039;s no domino of the type Siksai suggests.&#160; But Knollenberg has in the past deviated from the Gary Glenn scorecard - on the federal gay marriage ban amendment in 04 he voted no - and that was long before there was any anti-Republican wave. In fact, it was a risky thing to do at the time. If you notice the pattern here - the metro-area Republicans voted one way, and the others the other way.&#160; There are logical demographic &amp; electoral reason for this, as well as the fact that this bill also had a provision in it that prohibits &quot;preferential treatment&quot; for gays along with prohibiting discrimination against them -- indeed, as a matter of conscience, that clause alone makes this piece of legislation reasonable, and a mirror of the principles embodied in the MCRI-Proposal 2 of 2006 applying to race, ethnicity, and gender.&lt;p&gt;
Indeed, this law is as much a triumph for the anti-preferential treatment model of anti-discrimination law as it is anything else.&#160; You&#039;re right - it doesn&#039;t relate to same-sex marriage, but since it prohibits preferential treatment, and is limited to employment law, I don&#039;t think it presents a horrible precedent.&#160; On the other hand, I would sympathize with Gary Glenn if he were to frame the issue as a matter of First Amendment associational and religious choice.&#160; Of course, that argument was made in the 1960s against the Civil Rights Act dealing with racial discrimination.&#160; So long as this law only prohibits employment discrimination though, and it clearly also prohibits preferential treatment, I&#039;m with Knollenberg philosophically (the logical basis for that is complicated, but involves contract theory and government neutrality). I suspect that these folks might actually think some of these issues through when they vote - setting aside rhetoric and reality.&lt;p&gt;
Oh, and for the benefit of your editor, I&#039;ve worked for Knollenberg&#039;s son in the past, but might conceivably work for other &quot;conservatives&quot; adhering to Gary Glenn&#039;s position.&#160; I wonder if I&#039;ve damaged myself here.&lt;p&gt;
Finally, I&#039;m curious as to how long you gave the Washington offices to respond to your query.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Siksai is wrong, and clearly either naive or spinning</strong> With respect to Siksai, the reasoning here is just plain wrong.&nbsp; Just as wrong as Gary Glenn&#8217;s.&nbsp; Since this is a column and you mention &#8220;Rhetoric &#038; Reality&#8221;, let&#8217;s dispel the damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don&#8217;t rhetoric.
<p>
First, Miller&#8217;s seat is considered very safe, and McCotter&#8217;s somewhat safe, even under the worst of political tides.&nbsp; Yes, Knollenberg is in a targeted district &#8211; but there&#8217;s no domino of the type Siksai suggests.&nbsp; But Knollenberg has in the past deviated from the Gary Glenn scorecard &#8211; on the federal gay marriage ban amendment in 04 he voted no &#8211; and that was long before there was any anti-Republican wave. In fact, it was a risky thing to do at the time. If you notice the pattern here &#8211; the metro-area Republicans voted one way, and the others the other way.&nbsp; There are logical demographic &#038; electoral reason for this, as well as the fact that this bill also had a provision in it that prohibits &#8220;preferential treatment&#8221; for gays along with prohibiting discrimination against them &#8212; indeed, as a matter of conscience, that clause alone makes this piece of legislation reasonable, and a mirror of the principles embodied in the MCRI-Proposal 2 of 2006 applying to race, ethnicity, and gender.</p>
<p>
Indeed, this law is as much a triumph for the anti-preferential treatment model of anti-discrimination law as it is anything else.&nbsp; You&#8217;re right &#8211; it doesn&#8217;t relate to same-sex marriage, but since it prohibits preferential treatment, and is limited to employment law, I don&#8217;t think it presents a horrible precedent.&nbsp; On the other hand, I would sympathize with Gary Glenn if he were to frame the issue as a matter of First Amendment associational and religious choice.&nbsp; Of course, that argument was made in the 1960s against the Civil Rights Act dealing with racial discrimination.&nbsp; So long as this law only prohibits employment discrimination though, and it clearly also prohibits preferential treatment, I&#8217;m with Knollenberg philosophically (the logical basis for that is complicated, but involves contract theory and government neutrality). I suspect that these folks might actually think some of these issues through when they vote &#8211; setting aside rhetoric and reality.</p>
<p>
Oh, and for the benefit of your editor, I&#8217;ve worked for Knollenberg&#8217;s son in the past, but might conceivably work for other &#8220;conservatives&#8221; adhering to Gary Glenn&#8217;s position.&nbsp; I wonder if I&#8217;ve damaged myself here.</p>
<p>
Finally, I&#8217;m curious as to how long you gave the Washington offices to respond to your query.</p>
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