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The Michigan Messenger going forward

By Staff Report | 11.16.11

I am writing today to announce the closure of the Michigan Messenger. After four years of operation in Michigan, the board of the American Independent News Network, has decided to shift publication of its news into a single site, The American Independent at Americanindependent.com. This is part of a shift in strategy, towards new forms [...]

Colorado-based abstinence program provided false and misleading information to Michigan students

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By Todd A. Heywood | 11.16.11

An abstinence-only presentation provided to numerous school districts in Calhoun and Eaton Counties in October of this year provided false and misleading information to students about HIV, experts allege.

Class action lawsuit filed against MERS over unpaid taxes

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By Todd A. Heywood | 11.15.11

Two county registers of deeds filed a class action lawsuit Monday on behalf of Michigan’s 83 counties alleging that the Mortgage Electronic Registration Services owes millions of dollars in property title transfer taxes.

Schuette fights important mercury regulations

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By Eartha Jane Melzer | 11.14.11

Despite evidence of the impact of mercury on children and public health, Michigan Attorney General Bill Schuette last month joined with 24 other state attorneys general in filing a lawsuit to scuttle new EPA regulations that would reduce mercury emissions from power plants.

Why the Chevy Volt won’t electrify America

By Minehaha Forman | 08.28.08 | 7:04 am

Despite McCain’s hype, GM’s new hybrid car is not all that it could be

GMs Chevy Volt concept car (image via gliving.com)

GM's Chevy Volt (image via gliving.com)

Back in July, when John McCain visited the GM Technical Center in Warren, Mich., he boldly stated that, “The eyes of the world are on the [Chevy] Volt.” lGeneral Motors (NYSE:GM) has also touted it as “the car of the future.”

But when asked about the potential of GM’s newest electric vehicle, the response from auto experts was lukewarm, at best. Two auto experts expressed doubt about the car’s prospects. One of them said garnering a consumer base would be a major obstacle to success. The other suggested that GM is purposefully restricting electric-vehicle technology to stay in the good graces of oil companies and that the Volt is merely a compromise between consumer demand and energy politics.

The Chevy Volt is a hybrid vehicle that runs on both electric power and gas. GM is promoting a 2010 release date for the car (which will cost $30,000-$40,000) though some are not sure if it will be ready by then. Bruce M. Belzowski, assistant research scientist in the University of Michigan’s Automotive Analysis Division, says he can’t tell what kind of progress they’re making. “There doesn’t seem to be any obvious breakthrough in battery technology,” he said. “They may be holding these results close to the vest.”

Another expert, a GM product specialist who did not wish to reveal his name, had a different answer when asked if a 2010 release date was realistic. “Of course it’s realistic. Is it what GM is going to do? Not so sure,” he said. “We’ve seen it before with their EV-1.”

The EV-1 was released in 1996 and was the first all-electric vehicle to be manufactured by a major automaker. It was discontinued in 1999. Four years later, in 2003, GM had removed all EV-1s from the road in a recall that is still surrounded by controversy. A 2006 documentary called “Who Killed the Electric Car?” traced the EV-1′s demise back to the influence of oil companies. GM’s insider says the Volt is a step backwards when it comes to technology.

“Why did the EV-1 not use any gas but an electric car years later needs gas and gets less than half the range?” the product specialist asked.

He added:

“[The Volt is] not only a PR move but a fine balancing act of maintaining the political status quo with oil industries and pleasing the demand for green energy.”

But GM argues that the range of the EV-1 was limited. “[The EV-1] could only go as far as the charge would take it [100 miles],” GM spokesperson Clay Perry told Michigan Messenger. “The beauty of a hybrid is that for the 80 percent of Americans that only drive 40 miles a day, the Volt would be fine.”

There are still some known glitches that need ironing out before the Volt hits showrooms for purchase, says Belzowski. “You have to be able to develop something that works. Then you have to be able to mass produce it,” he said.

Even so, the Volt won’t be mass-produced at first according to auto experts. In fact, Belzowski is sure the Volt will be a limited edition. He said GM would only make up to 10,000 units because he doesn’t see a huge demand for the Volt at first. And in terms of a financial venture, both Belzowski and GM’s specialist agree that the Volt isn’t something GM’s going to rely on for cash anytime soon.

“The vehicle is so new they won’t make money on it,” Belzowski said. “There’s so much money put into R and D in the first place. They want to get it out there to get some good press.”

Some other setbacks GM is struggling with are whether to make the Volt a coupe or a four-door as well as working out battery efficiency. One GM spokesperson told Wired magazine about battery draining issues, with the windshield wipers, lights, AC and sound system sucking up power.

These are two points that the GM specialist sees as a “smoke and mirrors” tactic from GM. He pointed out that the Volt has a 45 kilowatt continuous power stream and all of the accessories that take up electricity combined would be less than one kilowatt.

“If you don’t do the math [...] it’s easy to say, ‘those things use power,’” he said. “The thing that GM’s not pointing out is how much power.” The specialist suggested that these claims may be an excuse from GM to put off the release of the Volt.

Then there’s the issue of recharge time. That’s important if you run out of energy on the road. With the Volt, the gas-powered engine kicks in when the battery dies. Belzowski said it was expected to be an overnight charge. GM estimates show that it could take anywhere from 4-8 hours to get it juiced up for a 40-mile roundtrip drive before it starts using gas and 48 hours of charge before it needed to be unplugged. Actually, the Volt’s ability to use gas is what Belzowski said is the Volt’s “advantage” over the EV-1.

He said chargers for electric cars will not be in gas stations anytime soon because it takes hours to charge a car and people are unlikely to leave their cars for hours at a station.

GM’s insider isn’t buying it. He said that the charge time issue seems like another ploy by GM to distract consumers. “These are the same arguments we heard with the EV-1,” he said. “The same cannibalistic smears but this time to a smaller degree,” he said, suggesting GM restricts its own technology to appease powerful oil industries. He indicated that if indeed the issue with electric cars was charging time, then GM should hold off until they get that resolved instead of teasing consumers with a release, then a recall.

The GM insider went so far as to say that he would not buy the Chevy Volt. To him the price was discouraging and he is waiting on a purely electric car because he is confident that GM and other automakers have the time and money to create one.

The GM specialist’s less than enthusiastic assessment of the Volt is also dampened by the fate of the EV-1. “History has a tendency to repeat itself. That’s why I’m cautious about the Volt,” the specialist said.

But according to the GM spokesperson, the Volt will be different. “When you introduce a radically different product, you have to do it at the ideal time.” Perry said. He suggested low fuel prices made the EV-1 less appealing at the time of its introduction in 1996. “[Now that] gas prices are high, people are going to look for alternatives.”

The expert’s responses certainly raise some questions. If GM’s not depending on Volt sales for money or looking to use it as the prototype for creating a whole new fleet of cars in the near future, then the hype does seem based on political rhetoric. Is the Volt marketing campaign targeted at consumers, or at Congress, which has the power to hand out billions in the name of developing green energy? It also might be a tactic to convince Wall Street that GM won’t go bankrupt.

If nothing else, the Volt is a good look. “[The Volt has] a touch of the ‘cool’ factor,” GM’s product specialist said. “They look awesome.” The question is: Will the Volt be awesome enough to bring GM out of its slump?

Comments

  • itsaboutchoice

    “But GM argues that the range of the EV-1 was limited. “[The EV-1] could only go as far as the charge would take it [100 miles],”

    The second generation EV1 had advanced NiMH batteries that provided excellent range and durability.
    Here is a test spec sheet from the US Department of Energy. At a constant speed test of 60 mph the car traveled 160 miles. At a constant speed of 40 mph the car traveled 220 miles on a charge. A driving cycle range test produced 140 miles per charge.

    http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/eva/ev1_eva.pdf

    There's more to the story than just trying not to upset oil companies, GM would have virtually no maintenance on a car like the EV1. No oil changes, air or gas filters, belts, tuneups, exhaust systems, etc… The NiMH battery requires no maintenace for life. The proposed new Volt adds all of the above items back into the picture.

    For those folk that seem to make all kinds of excuses why GM couldn't sell the car (only leased), the excuse that the car wasn't safe (crash tested) is false, it was crash tested and passed.

    http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-50325069.html

  • Q

    gm-volt.com.

    If you're worried what the demand will be like, note that well over 30,000 people have signed up to be on the waiting list FOR THE WAITING LIST. Sheesh, you'd think a supposed auto-expert would do some research first. The fact is that the car already has garnered a rather large fan-base and isn't due out for 4 more years. The problem isn't going to be demand, it's going to be supply. How many can GM pump out a year?

    It astounds me that analysts keep saying “oh, there won't be a market for it” as all people can talk about these days is high gas prices. In fact, do your own research: walk down the street and ask 20 people if they'd like a car that could run 40 miles without using a drop of gas, but had a total range of 400 miles. I guarantee you that everyone would at least be interested.

    Am I mad at GM for killing the EV1–definitely! However, the technology for the EV1 was limited. People seem to forget how much energy it takes to produce NiMH batteries and how badly they pollute if not disposed of properly. The Volt uses Li-Ion which is far more environmentally friendly (biodegradable, for instance). NiMH batteries also DO have maintenance issues as the cells tend to go bad much more easily than Li-Ion…ever wonder why they were only leased in Cali? Because NiMH batteries tend to do very poorly in extreme cold (i.e. winter). In edition, if you wanted to take an EV1 on a road trip–you'd better have planned stops for several hours every 100 miles or so.

    Just some food for thought…..I, for one, am pretty excited about the Volt.

    • Q

      Oops…I said 4 years and meant 2… :-)

  • Ken

    The charge time argument doesn't make any sense. Why should the volt be delayed to market because it can't be charged in 5 minutes. The longer the volt is delayed, the longer other car companies can drag their feet on electric. Also, the charging infrastructure can't be put in place until there is a real demand for it. The addition of a gas engine is not to appease oil companies, it's so I can take a road trip without getting a second car, it's so I don't have to worry about being stranded if I had to make some extra trips in a day. It's insurance.
    I don't think the gas companies will be rolling in money because the volt will use a gallon for every 40 miles on road trips.

  • tom c gray

    Where did you manufacture the “fact” of a 48 hour recharge? Are you nuts? The Volt battery is only allowed to discharge to 30%, nor recharge to 80% and contains a 16 Kilowatthour battery pack, thus
    only the midmost 8 kilowatthour are used (to extend battery pack life to exceed the 10 year warranty).
    Two weeks ago the battery development engineer on the Volt project stated that, with a battery at the “customer depletion point” (i.e. 30%) it would require 1 hour using their 220V input to recharge half the power (20 miles worth) and then two hours for the second half, resulting in a 3 hour recharge. Using 110/20amp would take longer, obviously – around 4 to 5 hours.

    • Rayne1

      The author of this article left you a response down thread, in regards to the 48 hours.

  • Bob

    A “GM Specialist says…”

    Specialist in what? The assembly line?
    From his negative comments it seems like he is a disgruntled employee, so I'll take everything he says with a grain of salt.”

    That being said, there may be some truth in what is being said.

    • Rayne1

      A disgruntled employee might be one who is disappointed in the product their company produces, and/or concerned about the prospects of their future with a firm whose products aren't up to snuff.

      You'll note this person is not an EX-employee.

  • par harrington

    I love to see articles like this – they are so
    obviously politically motivated that they make an
    Obama statement seem almost rational by comparison.
    Let's point out the errors in this amateurish and
    transparently anti-GM article :
    Belzowski (I assume he is actually alive, and not
    being quoted from the grave, although that would
    at least explain his incrdibly ignorant remarks)
    claims : He's “unsure” about the Volt battery.” Why?
    Has Belzowski been living on Mars the past year? Luts
    clearly stated three weeks ago that both candidate
    battery packs (LG/LG Chem, and A123 Systems/Continental AG)
    have been performing flawlessly since they arrived and
    that the battery will not be any obstacle to achieving
    their Nov,2010 launch date, a date that has not varied.
    All project managers and Lutz now claim that the launch
    date “is a lock.” Belzowski claims no “breakthru” in GM's
    battery technology. GM is not developing batteries, Belzowsi,
    and never has, at least not large cell units for vehicular
    propulsion. The battery pack are performing exactly as GM
    specked them at the outset, even achieving (and sometimes
    exceeding) the 40 mile electric driving range specified
    and that's with a less than optimal mule-car testor. As
    should be obvious to even dimwitted 7 year olds, GM
    doesn't need any “breakthru.” The notion displays almost
    total ignorance on the part of Belzowski, if such a person really exists.

    • Rayne1

      If you'd like to do the same kind of homework we do, you can contact Bruce M. Belzowski, assistant research scientist in the University of Michigan’s Automotive Analysis Division at U of M.

      To the best of our knowledge, Mr. Belzowski has been living in the greater Ann Arbor area, in close proximity to his employment, although you may want to ask him if he's been living on Mars yourself.

      A question for you: is it at all possible that a CEO or other management figurehead at any publicly-held corporation might have good reason to put a positive spin on any products in development?

  • spec9

    What a crappy article that over-hypes the worries. The Volt is just fine. It's only problem is that batteries are expensive such that the car will cost more than anticipated and GM won't really make much (if any) money off of it right away. The series hybrid idea is great . . . it eliminates the charge time and limited range of EVs. It also allows a smaller (read: cheaper) battery to be used than a pure EV since the battery only needs to carry the car for the first N miles (40 for the Volt). But it is still expensive and the car needs both an electric motor and a gas engine.

    But once it is launched . . . people will quickly realize that most of their needs are handled by the pure EV aspect of the Volt . . . and that is what will start the real electric revolution. People have this need called 'sleeping' and every house has a fuel supply for the volt (an electrical outlet), thus every Volt owner will wake up with a fully fueled vehicle every morning.

    • Rayne1

      Isn't the concern about the Volt a little more than just the cost of the battery?

      US News & World Report, 16-NOV-07
      “The unlikely attraction is a battery and, at roughly 300 pounds, a mighty big one. “

      DetNews, 03-APR-08:
      “Designing the Volt was especially tricky because GM needed to fit a battery pack “the size of a linebacker” into a car essentially the size of a Chevrolet Cobalt, with enough room for four passengers to fit comfortably inside, Burns said.”

      Size matters, in case you haven't been told — and if they were still worried about the size of the battery in April, do you think they really have supplier issues addressed 4 months later?

      If memory serves, the battery was the problem with the EV-1, had an annoying habit of bursting into flames, causing underwriting to have massive heartburn over the product. If they haven't solidly nailed down the size and weight of the battery, and they haven't solidly nailed down the supply, do you really think they've nailed down the underwriting issues on this vehicle?

  • Joe Faliti

    A “GM product specialist” is what exactly? I'm guessing he is some sort of car salesman? Anyhow, he sounds like a loser to me, 'cause he won't give his name!

    • Rayne1

      How would you feel if this was an executive within the organization who was worried about his job and his retirement as well as the company's solvency?

      How would you feel if this was a product designer within the organization who not only was worried about his job, but worried about the public buying this vehicle?

      How would you feel if this was any employee somewhere in-between with similar motivations?

      As far as you know, the person could be any one of those; we can assure you they are an employee of the corporation. But there's a reason we extended anonymity to this person; they are acting in what could be a whistleblower's capacity, calling attention to issues with a product about which the public might not otherwise learn.

      Here's a question for you: quite often corporations hire sock puppets to post belittling comments attached to stories that are negative about their operations or products. How do we know you're not a sock puppet?

  • nina4greenpwr

    yes well… i believe they won't be in the front running for the future ev's. my money is on Goss132. a great
    electrical vehicle platform both for technology, and business. they got my vote completely!!

  • fred jessup

    I can easily see why this strangely titled “GM product specialist”
    doesn't want to be named. This person is obviously “vaporware.”
    If he's unsure about a 2010 launch, he contradicts the recent
    claims by all the Volt team managers that the 2010 date is “a lock.”
    So far the Volt has achieved all its development milestones.
    The claim that the Volt is only good for 80% of the public is
    laughably ignorant. The claim that 80% of the public drives over 40 miles
    a day is incorrect. That figure refers to the number of commuters who
    commute over 40 miles a day. What about those 20% who commute over 40
    miles? Well, 7% of all commuters commute between 41 and 50 miles and
    would need to use between 1/50th of a gallon, for 41 miles and 1/5th
    of a gallon for those commuting 50 miles. 5% of all commuters commute
    between 51 and 60 miles and would use between 1/5th and 2/5th of a gallon
    of gas. 3% of all commuters commute between 61 and 70 miles and would
    use between 2/5th and 3/5th of a gallon of gas. 8% commuter over 70 miles
    and would use between 3/5th and around a gallon (for those commuting
    90 miles). These statsictics show that the Volt as a commuter (which accounts
    for half the gaoline used in this country) can achieve 275 MPG and
    avoid over 93% of gasoline. The claim that a 40 mile range is only good
    for those who commute or drive less than 40 miles a day is a laughingly
    ignorant and transparent lie. And we all know right now that many businesses
    and shoppiing centers, etc. are planning recharging stations on their parking
    lots. Only 20% of the commuters would require any recharging at all, and most
    who do need some recharging need very little. If only 1/3rd of those
    can recharge enough at the workplace or while shopping to get them back
    home without having to use any gasoline, the Volt can achieve over
    450 MPG and avoid over 96% of current gasoline usage. The idea that
    one gains anything significant by owning a completely impractical
    battery-only electric car is absurd. Anybody can build a battery-only electric -
    we could do that over 100 years ago. Problem is, those cars were about as good
    as the battery-only electrics around for the past 15 years. When a practical
    battery shows up that can be recharged in a few minutes, cost less than
    $600 per kWhr, then a battery only electric will be the preferred technology,
    not so much because it has any advantage over plug-in hybrids in its
    operation, but because it will be simpler and cheaper. We're nowhere near
    that point, despite the ingorant hype for exorbitantly expensive technologies
    like Altair nansafes, etc. Battery-only technology is an oxymoron – it makes
    zero economic sense, and one can easily prove that a plug-in with an electric
    driving range of over 40 miles can actually equal a battery-only, ince
    that driver will have to use a gas powered car for most trips over 40 miles
    and get 20 to 30 MPG , while the Volt can travel the first 40 miles on electricity
    alone and acheieve 50 MPG while running on gas. A fleet of Volts would destroy
    the automotive gasoline industry for private transportation – it could use
    ethanol to meet al of its need for a liquid fuel.

    • Rayne1

      Personally, I continue to wonder why GM hasn't concentrated on that 80 miles per day roundtrip audience to build light rail cars or buses, based on the fuel cell technology they already had access to 5+ years ago. It may not be as big a business in quantity as personal vehicles, but they might be closer to building those kinds of vehicles than personal EV's.

  • ShakespearesIdiot

    Just because the anonymous source won't give his name doesn't make him wrong. Nor does his negative views make him disgruntled necessarily. Its no secret that the Big Three have been playing this same game for years. The get durable enough products so that cars could last 25 years or more like in the 1950s and 60s. But the company realized it would be more beneficial to make cars that would fail after 100,000 miles and fail often. When GM had a chance to create the EV because it required so little maintenance and had promising durability. Can't we all see whats happening? These company are intentionally created inferior products that they can increase profit margins. All this at the expense of the consumer's pocketbook and effectively their convenience. Is this ethical? Is this for the the greater good? It's for the good of someone and its dishonest and its greedy…There is no reason to disagree with this article. Maybe the car companies are doing the best they can, but they are in cahoots with the oil tyrrants and are trying to compromise between the oil merchants and the consumers. But since when has it been acceptable for a company to not put their customer's first. That's a greater issue at stake and part of what this article is trying to address. Well done.

  • christhefur

    I think the purpose of the article is lost, judging by the reaction of many.

    The Volt seems to be the real deal on most fronts, no matter the enthusiasm of GM workers and enthusiasts, alike. With any new concept (or renewed, in this case), there will be questions and there most definitely will be suspicions. I doubt these people are planning for it to fail, nor is the writer pressing for a negative imagery for the Volt. You have to step back from it and check out the authenticity all around, though.

    The EV-1 had similar criticisms and hype, and even though it was eventually scrapped it appeared to work. Which is exactly what they wanted it do, correct? Fact is, it was as efficient as it was creative, but for some reason the execs found it best to dispose of it. Whose to say the Volt won't make its own path in the next generation of cars? It can, and possibly will. Do you think America is ready for it this time around? That, we'll find out.

  • mforman

    “The [lithium-ion] battery cannot remain at the peak voltage for too long; the maximum allowable time is 48 hours. When reaching full charge, the voltage must be lowered to maintain the battery at between 2.25 and 2.27V/cell.”

    -Isidor Buchmann has studied rechargeable batteries in practical, everyday applications for two decades.
    The 48 hour recharge time estimate is what battery experts set as its “maximum” recharge time. That's the absolute amount of time it can hold a full charge without damaging the battery. After 48 hours you need to unplug it. He went afterwards said the Volt would need an “overnight” charge to get the 40 mile range. “Overnight” is a term being used widely by GM spokespeople and could mean anything from 12-? hours. Other GM estimates say the Volt will have a 6 hour recharge time or an 8 hour recharge time depending on the source. Who knows.

  • john salak

    I find it hard to believe that anyone can be
    so dumb as to claim that an EV-1 type car, with
    a 100 mile range is better than a Volt, with
    a 40 mile electric driving range. That EV-1 car :
    1) requires that you buy, garage, insure and
    maintain a second, gas powered car for all those
    destinations over 45 miles away. 2) Has a battery
    pack (like the upcoming Mitsubishi EV) that will
    cost over $20,000 and last no more than 5 years,
    while the Volt battery pack costs $15,000 and will
    last 10 years, making the per year battery costs
    of the all electric car $4,000 per year. And for what?
    The Volt can avoid as much gas and emissions as
    the all electric. All electrics are just dumb. In
    every conceivable way. They are not a viable
    alternative to the gas powered or plug-in hybrid.
    Any grade school kid can easily figure that out. Boy, are
    you people dense.

    • itsaboutchoice

      John Salak said:
      I find it hard to believe that anyone can be
      so dumb as to claim that an EV-1 type car, with
      a 100 mile range is better than a Volt, with
      a 40 mile electric driving range.

      The EV1 doesn't do everything, but it does do in town and suburban commuting very well. Who does that cover? GM Perry said “The beauty of a hybrid is that for the 80 percent of Americans that only drive 40 miles a day, the Volt would be fine.”. Now if the GM representative feels that 40 miles would cover 80% of the transportation range needs, why do you feel 100 miles wouldn't work just fine for the majority of drivers? You must be smarter than GM and the studies they cite.

      John Salak said:
      That EV-1 car :
      1) requires that you buy, garage, insure and
      maintain a second, gas powered car for all those
      destinations over 45 miles away.

      The EV1 had a range easily over 140 miles per charge in a government driving cycle test. See this link to the U.S. Department of Energy test results. http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/eva/ev1_eva.pdf If you want another car fine, a lot of Americans have more than one car, so, yes, keep a gas car, most people will, likely a large passenger carrying or towing vehicle. If more thought is given, more than a few people fly to a vacation destination and then rent a car, would that work for you? EV1 would work fine for my less than 35-40 mile round trip commute that happens 6 times a week. I don't take the car on vacations, I use one of those petroleum based recreational vehicles.

      John Salak said:
      2) Has a battery
      pack (like the upcoming Mitsubishi EV) that will
      cost over $20,000 and last no more than 5 years,
      while the Volt battery pack costs $15,000 and will
      last 10 years, making the per year battery costs
      of the all electric car $4,000 per year. And for what?

      Is there a statement from Misubishi that says their battery will only last 5 years? Where's the link?
      Where are you getting the battery cost numbers, from Mitsubishi? Seems silly to release a car that will fail, doesn't? Other weblinks state the car is going into production in 2009 for Japan other countries in 2010.

      Here's a quote:
      “We recently covered the i-MiEV by Mitsubishi, a small urban electric car with a top speed of 130 kph (81 mph) and a range of 130 km (81 miles) or 160 km (99 miles), depending on the battery pack.”
      http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/02/mitsubi…

      John Salak said:
      The Volt can avoid as much gas and emissions as
      the all electric. All electrics are just dumb. In
      every conceivable way.

      An advanced car like the EV1 or possibly the i-MiEV would work for me, and I commute to work with some highway travel. How much better would it work for those that live in the city. It's conceivable to me that it would work great. Think harder.

      John Salak said:
      They are not a viable
      alternative to the gas powered or plug-in hybrid.
      Any grade school kid can easily figure that out. Boy, are
      you people dense.

      Oh now you're just acting like someone in the oil industry trying to protect their profits. Oil companies see the writing on the wall and will pull back and hunker down and say things like, the plugin-hybrids might work but, not electrics… no no no electrics will never work (as they plot to refute electric cars viability.) Are you employed by an Oil company?

      If electrics are weak, too costly to own, pathetic useless devices, then why or how does this company exist?

      Smith Electric Vehicles
      http://www.smithelectricvehicles.com/

  • jackW

    The Volt actually seems to be a pretty interesting car. I hate to bring up the “too good to be true” argument but, how can so many people put so much faith in this car? The way it's shaping, people are drooling, foaming even, over the promises of what this car will provide. I think as a business move, the volt is brilliant. People will hurt themselves and others to be able to proudly display how green they are. The mindless anticipation, i'll pass on that, but skepticism seems like the way to go, for me at least. With any hype there has to be skeptics, only after the analysis of both can one make a informed decision (which I know isn't always popular). Will the Volt save us all? Of course not. Will it boost the egos of “green freaks”? Undoubtedly. But only after it's release and after all the hype and recalls are hashed out will any of us know. So until then I say keep the articles coming.

    • Rayne1

      Nice comment, thanks; you point out the problems with the hype behind this car, in that it's supposed to be all things to all people, when in truth GM has made it the end-all-be-all for its continued operations. The fate of one of the largest corporations in the world is a pretty big burden, let alone all the rest of the demands that other stakeholders have in the development and marketing of an electric vehicle. GM's management and the analysts that follow the corporation should be constantly asking themselves, “is this too good to be true?”

  • everything.imp

    I am replying to everyone who replied that hasn't done research on the EV1 and the volt. The EV1 wasn't scrapped because of oil companies pressuring them or any other nice conspiracy theory. The car wasn't very pretty looking, gas was 1/4 the price it is now, it was a EV that couldn't get you further than 45 miles away from home and still get you back that same day, and the battery pack was multiple times heavier and larger than the volt pack…..not to mention this car would have cost the consumers 80,000+ lol…….so did you really expect them to just start selling them like hot cakes back in 1996 ??? for the love of Christ people wise up. The volt is meeting it's deadlines and doing it with ease. It has taking a lot of work to get it where it is but overall it has been smooth so far. I have zero doubt that the release date is going to get pushed back…….I would not be surprised if the release date was earlier than originally stated. This article about made me sick and at the same time made me wonder…….wtf kind of political spin crap is this??

    • itsaboutchoice

      Everything.imp said:
      I am replying to everyone who replied that hasn't done research on the EV1 and the volt.

      Have you done any research on the GM EV1 or the Toyota RAV4e?

      Everything.imp said:
      The EV1 wasn't scrapped because of oil companies pressuring them or any other nice conspiracy theory.

      GM is not innocent, why would they want to produce an electric car that required virtually no maintenance. No oil changes, air or oil filters, belts, tune-ups, antifreeze/radiator changes/repairs, no exhaust system, catalytic converters, etc. In other words drastically little income for dealers after the initial sale of the car.

      Since you brought up conspiracy theories, why would GM sell the advanced NiMH battery technology that included patents for large format NiMH batteries that worked to an oil company. Chevron holds the patents through a subsidiary Cobasis. Oil companies have no desire for electrics to come in to prominance for transportation. Do some googling on RAV4e and NiMH. Some of the RAV4e suvs still exist today running totally on NiMH batteries. GM crushed the EV1 to remove the evidence, Toyota sold a few so we have evidence with us today that the technology worked.

      Everything.imp said:
      The car wasn't very pretty looking,
      [subjective] There are lots of complaints about the Prius, it's selling.

      Everything.imp said:
      gas was 1/4 the price it is now, it was a EV that couldn't get you further than 45 miles away from home and still get you back that same day,

      Wrong. If you can read, please review the DOE tests on the EV1 with the NiMH batteries.
      Here is a test spec sheet from the US Department of Energy. At a constant speed test of 60 mph the car traveled 160 miles. At a constant speed of 40 mph the car traveled 220 miles on a charge. A driving cycle range test produced 140 miles per charge. GM said | says most people travel within 40 miles of home. Looks like the EV1 satisfied that requirement nicely.

      http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/eva/ev1_eva.pdf

      Please read this individuals review of the generation 2 EV1 with NiMH batteries.
      http://www.ev1.pair.com/charge_across_america/c…

      Everything.imp said:
      and the battery pack was multiple times heavier and larger than the volt pack…..not to mention this car would have cost the consumers 80,000+

      Toyota allocated resources and manpower to open a plant and begin producing a few hundred cars with low demand and a high development cost. Do note the dates, they are same era as the EV1.

      * March 1997 – Toyota Hybrid System unveiled.
      * December 1997 – first generation Prius launched for domestic Japanese market only (300 sales).
      * November 2000 – cumulative sales for Prius top 50 000.
      http://www.cbn.co.za/pressoffice/mccarthy_toyot…

      Note: They started with 300 sales, in November 2000 it was a cumulative sales total of 50,000. Not 50,000 per year it was a total production of 4 years from 1997 to 2000. To date, they sold 1 million, but it took 10 years to do it. Toyota was eating a pretty large amount of development and production costs for such few sales. Doesn't sound profitable to me, but Toyota did it and look where they are today with a 6-9 month waiting list. GM could have modified the design of the EV1 with a smaller battery and put in a gas engine, pretty much like the Volt and been competing with Toyota in the 90's.

      Everything.imp said:
      lol…….so did you really expect them to just start selling them like hot cakes back in 1996 ???

      Not like hotcakes but in small amounts just like the Toyota Prius started out as evidenced above.

      Everything.imp said:
      for the love of Christ people wise up.

      Appears if you have no facts to back up claims then evoke God, how disrespectful to God and the rest of us.

      Everything.imp said:
      The volt is meeting it's deadlines and doing it with ease.

      GM met the C.A.R.B mandates with the EV1.

      Everything.imp said:
      It has taking a lot of work to get it where it is but overall it has been smooth so far.

      Same for the EV1 after they replaced the poor performing lead-acid batteries with NiMH batteries.

      Everything.imp said:
      This article about made me sick and at the same time made me wonder…….wtf kind of political spin crap is this??

      Exactly, what kind of spin is this on the history of the EV1? The EV1 is gone. Why try to rewrite history, unless you or others you may be working for, have a fear the public would realize they could have had electric cars 10 years ago. Makes no sense to tell lies (assuming you did the research), unless there is fear.

  • Tony Belding

    This is one of the most ignorant and poorly researched articles that I've seen in a while. What's really damning isn't so much the many unfounded statements, often contradicting information which has been widely reported elsewhere. . . No, the larger failure is how the article lapses into incoherence and self-contradiction.

    For example: [Then there’s the issue of recharge time. That’s important if you run out of energy on the road. With the Volt, the gas-powered engine kicks in when the battery dies.]

    Running out of energy on the road would be important if the car didn't have a gas-powered engine that kicks in when the battery dies. As written, the third sentence directly contradicts the second.

    Next: [GM estimates show that it could take anywhere from 4-8 hours to get it juiced up for a 40-mile roundtrip drive before it starts using gas and 48 hours of charge before it needed to be unplugged.]

    What in the world does this mean? It either takes 4-8 hours to charge the battery, or it takes 48 hours. You can't have it both ways. As written, this sentence makes it sound like you have to keep the car plugged in for an additional 40 hours after the battery is fully charged. That's completely nonsensical.

    It gets better: [GM’s insider . . . said that the charge time issue seems like another ploy by GM to distract consumers. “These are the same arguments we heard with the EV-1,” he said. “The same cannibalistic smears but this time to a smaller degree]

    GM claims the Volt is fully as functional as a conventional gas-powered car and at least as convenient, requiring no compromises on the part of the owner. How that can possibly be spun as a “cannibalistic smear” is beyond my capacity to understand.

    Then we get this: [If GM’s not depending on Volt sales for money or looking to use it as the prototype for creating a whole new fleet of cars in the near future, then the hype does seem based on political rhetoric.]

    All indications from GM suggest that they are, in fact, looking to use the Chevy Volt as the prototype for creating a whole new fleet of cars in the near future. I'd like to know what basis the author has for suggesting that GM management is lying about this.

    I could go on at great length, as the whole article is full of unfounded speculation and insinuations, self-contradictions, muddled arguments, contradictions of well-publicized information, and otherwise inept axe-grinding.

  • http://ev1.org Doug Korthof

    Perry is simply not telling the truth. There was no problem with demand for the EV1, the problem was that GM only made about 1115 of them (850 of the 1997 version and 465 of the improved NiMH and lead 1999 version).

    Low gas prices had nothing to do with it!! The fact is, EVERY SINGLE EV1 FOUND A LESSEE, and if GM had not crushed them, intrepid drivers would have cherished them to this day.

    There are Corvair clubs, Oldsmobiles are kept running; DeSoto are still on the road — why did GM seize and crush ALL the EV1?

    The answer is that GM never wanted to release them, never wanted any consumer demand, and the truth is that GM still lies about the cost of making them as the only reason not to resume production. All else is lies and foma.

    Doug Korthorf
    562-430-2495

  • Ken

    I personally am involved in the Volt launch and I have to say some of the people on here should not be allowed to comment because most of the skeptics are so off base it should be illegal for them to post. especially the author of the article. The Volt will prevail and none of you have a clue as to what you are even stating.

    • Rayne1

      Care to leave your full name and phone number? We'd be interested in interviewing you.

  • http://evdoesit.blogspot.com/ Ron Fischer

    There may be a 30,000 person waiting list for Volt, but there was also a list for EV-1. GM argued there wasn't enough demand for EV-1 (not “no demand” but “not enough”). It seems possible that GM could do the same thing with Volt. Build one batch, then claim there isn't “enough demand” and simply stop. Will GM sell that batch or lease it with a recall option? The key difference this go around is that all this is motivated externally, by oil/gas prices and competitive PHEV and BEV announcements from other automakers, as opposed to the CARB rulings which were easier to nullify. It could still be a house of cards and collapse as fast if the recession becomes severe and oil/gas prices drop significantly.

  • Brent H

    This is green washing by GM. GM has a long history of collusion with the oil companies. The Volt is pure BS. Let's hope GM goes down in flames soon. Their business model of pulling the wools over their loyal customers' eyes cannot continue.

  • EV-guy

    Why does it take a major automaker $80,000.00 to make an electric car? I built one for $3,000.00 paying retail for the parts and the car body. Powerful and small electric motors are cheap and readily available. The rest is just electronics, (I.E.look at the cost of computers over time). Machining a highly complex and precision part like a gas engine that also requires a computer to control it is a very time consuming and expensive process. Yet I can buy a new one for as little as $10,000.00. The gas engine is so large and heavy compared to the rest of the car a special frame and suspension is required to suport it. It is the single heavyest and largest part of the car, the electric motor has more torque over the entire RPM range yet weighs less than 100LBS and is less than 1 cubic foot. I will believe in the Volt when I can go to a GM dealer and buy one, (not lease, buy). For less than double or triple the cost of a compact car.

    • Rayne1

      I'll throw out a few reasons for a sizable cost for a mass-produced EV that you would not have to deal with as an individual building a one-of vehicle.

      – sunk costs for R&D over the life of the development process, including testing and quality assurance of all components;
      – manufacturing design and retooling
      – manufacturing retraining;
      – startup costs related to development of a new brand;
      – startup costs related to negotiating new supplier relationships;
      – underwriting expenses related to insuring a new product (not to be confused with consumer insurance).

      That's for starters, I'm certain I've missed other major costs. These are all wrapped up in the cost-of-goods-sold and are not the kinds of expenses that a hobbyist or single individual would have to absorb.

      As for the price of a vehicle, that's an entirely different issue; if there's enough demand and supply is slow to ramp up, the market may simple command a higher price tag. That's a very simple exercise in supply and demand.

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