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	<title>Comments on: Grebner lawsuit highlights recent pattern of young Republican scandals</title>
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	<description>The Michigan Messenger is a local news site covering politics and policy throughout Michigan.  Its team delivers original reporting daily.  The Michigan Messenger is published by the nonpartisan and nonprofit group American Independent News Network.</description>
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		<title>By: MarkGrebner</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/22440/grebner-lawsuit-highlights-recent-pattern-of-young-republican-scandals/comment-page-1#comment-17360</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkGrebner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 03:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michiganmessenger.com/?p=22440#comment-17360</guid>
		<description>Your UNCLE!  That explains the eerie similarities, coupled to irresolvable discrepancies.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There&#039;s public access to voting information for the same &quot;reason&quot; as many other social rules:  it&#039;s just an unfolding of the history of the activity.  At the time of the Founding Fathers, not only was whether you voted a public issue, but so was WHO YOU VOTED FOR, since the secret ballot was unknown.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Since voting started out as a public act, the extension of privacy rights has been halting and erratic, implemented only when prompted only by some specific, over-riding concern.  (Voter registration and secret ballots were imposed to break the urban machines, for example.)  As a result, a surprising amount of information is available about individuals&#039; political actions.  In many states - not Michigan - every choice of party ballot in a primary is carefully recorded and disclosed.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Sorry this is so far off topic, but I suppose it&#039;s the expression of my repressed response to all the fascinating points raised in the rest of this thread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your UNCLE!  That explains the eerie similarities, coupled to irresolvable discrepancies.</p>
<p>There&#39;s public access to voting information for the same &#8220;reason&#8221; as many other social rules:  it&#39;s just an unfolding of the history of the activity.  At the time of the Founding Fathers, not only was whether you voted a public issue, but so was WHO YOU VOTED FOR, since the secret ballot was unknown.</p>
<p>Since voting started out as a public act, the extension of privacy rights has been halting and erratic, implemented only when prompted only by some specific, over-riding concern.  (Voter registration and secret ballots were imposed to break the urban machines, for example.)  As a result, a surprising amount of information is available about individuals&#39; political actions.  In many states &#8211; not Michigan &#8211; every choice of party ballot in a primary is carefully recorded and disclosed.</p>
<p>Sorry this is so far off topic, but I suppose it&#39;s the expression of my repressed response to all the fascinating points raised in the rest of this thread.</p>
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		<title>By: ebrayton</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/22440/grebner-lawsuit-highlights-recent-pattern-of-young-republican-scandals/comment-page-1#comment-17359</link>
		<dc:creator>ebrayton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 02:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michiganmessenger.com/?p=22440#comment-17359</guid>
		<description>Thank you for outing the voting patterns of my uncle (not me, because Ed is not my proper name). I honestly can&#039;t understand why you or anyone else has access to how anyone votes. A person&#039;s votes should be absolutely protected and private. They go to all that trouble at the polling places to protect such data, giving every person a privacy sleeve to make sure the person next to them can&#039;t see how they vote, then they hand that information over to others. In my opinion, that should be criminal. The notion that you have a database of voters and you have them &quot;coded&quot; based on their votes makes my skin crawl.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I do not teach construction, I am not married and I am nowhere near being &quot;about the same age&quot; as my uncle. And frankly, I don&#039;t think my &quot;leanings&quot; are any of your business except what I choose to reveal to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for outing the voting patterns of my uncle (not me, because Ed is not my proper name). I honestly can&#39;t understand why you or anyone else has access to how anyone votes. A person&#39;s votes should be absolutely protected and private. They go to all that trouble at the polling places to protect such data, giving every person a privacy sleeve to make sure the person next to them can&#39;t see how they vote, then they hand that information over to others. In my opinion, that should be criminal. The notion that you have a database of voters and you have them &#8220;coded&#8221; based on their votes makes my skin crawl.</p>
<p>I do not teach construction, I am not married and I am nowhere near being &#8220;about the same age&#8221; as my uncle. And frankly, I don&#39;t think my &#8220;leanings&#8221; are any of your business except what I choose to reveal to you.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkGrebner</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/22440/grebner-lawsuit-highlights-recent-pattern-of-young-republican-scandals/comment-page-1#comment-17358</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkGrebner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michiganmessenger.com/?p=22440#comment-17358</guid>
		<description>Finally - something I can comment on!  (I&#039;ve been reading everything with interest, but I&#039;m sure everyone understands if I don&#039;t discuss the lawsuit.)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The only Ed Brayton I can find on Michigan&#039;s voter rolls lives in Paris - the suburb of Big Rapids, that is.  If I&#039;ve got the right person, he votes in every even-year general election, but nothing else in the past ten years.  No political leanings are discernible from the records I have.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That Ed Brayton is married, and his wife voted in the Republican presidential primary 18 months ago, and I have her coded as pro-environment.  It&#039;s not always safe to impute one spouse&#039;s political views to the other, but it&#039;s not a bad bet to do so.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My considered judgment is that Ed is not very interested in local or statewide politics, but is conscientious enough to vote when he knows what he&#039;s doing and he thinks his vote counts.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Update:  I&#039;m not sure if I&#039;ve got the right Ed Brayton or not.  The voter is a professor at Ferris State who teaches Construction.  The writer is a science expositor.  They both seem to live near Grand Rapids and are about the same age.  And they have similar faces, but apparently different hair.  If this Ed Brayton doesn&#039;t teach at Ferris State, he&#039;s not registered to vote in Michigan under the name &quot;Ed* Brayton&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally &#8211; something I can comment on!  (I&#39;ve been reading everything with interest, but I&#39;m sure everyone understands if I don&#39;t discuss the lawsuit.)</p>
<p>The only Ed Brayton I can find on Michigan&#39;s voter rolls lives in Paris &#8211; the suburb of Big Rapids, that is.  If I&#39;ve got the right person, he votes in every even-year general election, but nothing else in the past ten years.  No political leanings are discernible from the records I have.</p>
<p>That Ed Brayton is married, and his wife voted in the Republican presidential primary 18 months ago, and I have her coded as pro-environment.  It&#39;s not always safe to impute one spouse&#39;s political views to the other, but it&#39;s not a bad bet to do so.</p>
<p>My considered judgment is that Ed is not very interested in local or statewide politics, but is conscientious enough to vote when he knows what he&#39;s doing and he thinks his vote counts.</p>
<p>Update:  I&#39;m not sure if I&#39;ve got the right Ed Brayton or not.  The voter is a professor at Ferris State who teaches Construction.  The writer is a science expositor.  They both seem to live near Grand Rapids and are about the same age.  And they have similar faces, but apparently different hair.  If this Ed Brayton doesn&#39;t teach at Ferris State, he&#39;s not registered to vote in Michigan under the name &#8220;Ed* Brayton&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkGrebner</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/22440/grebner-lawsuit-highlights-recent-pattern-of-young-republican-scandals/comment-page-1#comment-11584</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkGrebner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michiganmessenger.com/?p=22440#comment-11584</guid>
		<description>Your UNCLE!  That explains the eerie similarities, coupled to irresolvable discrepancies.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There&#039;s public access to voting information for the same &quot;reason&quot; as many other social rules:  it&#039;s just an unfolding of the history of the activity.  At the time of the Founding Fathers, not only was whether you voted a public issue, but so was WHO YOU VOTED FOR, since the secret ballot was unknown.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Since voting started out as a public act, the extension of privacy rights has been halting and erratic, implemented only when prompted only by some specific, over-riding concern.  (Voter registration and secret ballots were imposed to break the urban machines, for example.)  As a result, a surprising amount of information is available about individuals&#039; political actions.  In many states - not Michigan - every choice of party ballot in a primary is carefully recorded and disclosed.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Sorry this is so far off topic, but I suppose it&#039;s the expression of my repressed response to all the fascinating points raised in the rest of this thread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your UNCLE!  That explains the eerie similarities, coupled to irresolvable discrepancies.</p>
<p>There&#39;s public access to voting information for the same &#8220;reason&#8221; as many other social rules:  it&#39;s just an unfolding of the history of the activity.  At the time of the Founding Fathers, not only was whether you voted a public issue, but so was WHO YOU VOTED FOR, since the secret ballot was unknown.</p>
<p>Since voting started out as a public act, the extension of privacy rights has been halting and erratic, implemented only when prompted only by some specific, over-riding concern.  (Voter registration and secret ballots were imposed to break the urban machines, for example.)  As a result, a surprising amount of information is available about individuals&#39; political actions.  In many states &#8211; not Michigan &#8211; every choice of party ballot in a primary is carefully recorded and disclosed.</p>
<p>Sorry this is so far off topic, but I suppose it&#39;s the expression of my repressed response to all the fascinating points raised in the rest of this thread.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ebrayton</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/22440/grebner-lawsuit-highlights-recent-pattern-of-young-republican-scandals/comment-page-1#comment-11583</link>
		<dc:creator>ebrayton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michiganmessenger.com/?p=22440#comment-11583</guid>
		<description>Thank you for outing the voting patterns of my uncle (not me, because Ed is not my proper name). I honestly can&#039;t understand why you or anyone else has access to how anyone votes. A person&#039;s votes should be absolutely protected and private. They go to all that trouble at the polling places to protect such data, giving every person a privacy sleeve to make sure the person next to them can&#039;t see how they vote, then they hand that information over to others. In my opinion, that should be criminal. The notion that you have a database of voters and you have them &quot;coded&quot; based on their votes makes my skin crawl.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I do not teach construction, I am not married and I am nowhere near being &quot;about the same age&quot; as my uncle. And frankly, I don&#039;t think my &quot;leanings&quot; are any of your business except what I choose to reveal to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for outing the voting patterns of my uncle (not me, because Ed is not my proper name). I honestly can&#39;t understand why you or anyone else has access to how anyone votes. A person&#39;s votes should be absolutely protected and private. They go to all that trouble at the polling places to protect such data, giving every person a privacy sleeve to make sure the person next to them can&#39;t see how they vote, then they hand that information over to others. In my opinion, that should be criminal. The notion that you have a database of voters and you have them &#8220;coded&#8221; based on their votes makes my skin crawl.</p>
<p>I do not teach construction, I am not married and I am nowhere near being &#8220;about the same age&#8221; as my uncle. And frankly, I don&#39;t think my &#8220;leanings&#8221; are any of your business except what I choose to reveal to you.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkGrebner</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/22440/grebner-lawsuit-highlights-recent-pattern-of-young-republican-scandals/comment-page-1#comment-11582</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkGrebner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michiganmessenger.com/?p=22440#comment-11582</guid>
		<description>Finally - something I can comment on!  (I&#039;ve been reading everything with interest, but I&#039;m sure everyone understands if I don&#039;t discuss the lawsuit.)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The only Ed Brayton I can find on Michigan&#039;s voter rolls lives in Paris - the suburb of Big Rapids, that is.  If I&#039;ve got the right person, he votes in every even-year general election, but nothing else in the past ten years.  No political leanings are discernible from the records I have.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That Ed Brayton is married, and his wife voted in the Republican presidential primary 18 months ago, and I have her coded as pro-environment.  It&#039;s not always safe to impute one spouse&#039;s political views to the other, but it&#039;s not a bad bet to do so.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My considered judgment is that Ed is not very interested in local or statewide politics, but is conscientious enough to vote when he knows what he&#039;s doing and he thinks his vote counts.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Update:  I&#039;m not sure if I&#039;ve got the right Ed Brayton or not.  The voter is a professor at Ferris State who teaches Construction.  The writer is a science expositor.  They both seem to live near Grand Rapids and are about the same age.  And they have similar faces, but apparently different hair.  If this Ed Brayton doesn&#039;t teach at Ferris State, he&#039;s not registered to vote in Michigan under the name &quot;Ed* Brayton&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally &#8211; something I can comment on!  (I&#39;ve been reading everything with interest, but I&#39;m sure everyone understands if I don&#39;t discuss the lawsuit.)</p>
<p>The only Ed Brayton I can find on Michigan&#39;s voter rolls lives in Paris &#8211; the suburb of Big Rapids, that is.  If I&#39;ve got the right person, he votes in every even-year general election, but nothing else in the past ten years.  No political leanings are discernible from the records I have.</p>
<p>That Ed Brayton is married, and his wife voted in the Republican presidential primary 18 months ago, and I have her coded as pro-environment.  It&#39;s not always safe to impute one spouse&#39;s political views to the other, but it&#39;s not a bad bet to do so.</p>
<p>My considered judgment is that Ed is not very interested in local or statewide politics, but is conscientious enough to vote when he knows what he&#39;s doing and he thinks his vote counts.</p>
<p>Update:  I&#39;m not sure if I&#39;ve got the right Ed Brayton or not.  The voter is a professor at Ferris State who teaches Construction.  The writer is a science expositor.  They both seem to live near Grand Rapids and are about the same age.  And they have similar faces, but apparently different hair.  If this Ed Brayton doesn&#39;t teach at Ferris State, he&#39;s not registered to vote in Michigan under the name &#8220;Ed* Brayton&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkGrebner</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/22440/grebner-lawsuit-highlights-recent-pattern-of-young-republican-scandals/comment-page-1#comment-7687</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkGrebner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michiganmessenger.com/?p=22440#comment-7687</guid>
		<description>Your UNCLE!  That explains the eerie similarities, coupled to irresolvable discrepancies.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There&#039;s public access to voting information for the same &quot;reason&quot; as many other social rules:  it&#039;s just an unfolding of the history of the activity.  At the time of the Founding Fathers, not only was whether you voted a public issue, but so was WHO YOU VOTED FOR, since the secret ballot was unknown.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Since voting started out as a public act, the extension of privacy rights has been halting and erratic, implemented only when prompted only by some specific, over-riding concern.  (Voter registration and secret ballots were imposed to break the urban machines, for example.)  As a result, a surprising amount of information is available about individuals&#039; political actions.  In many states - not Michigan - every choice of party ballot in a primary is carefully recorded and disclosed.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Sorry this is so far off topic, but I suppose it&#039;s the expression of my repressed response to all the fascinating points raised in the rest of this thread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your UNCLE!  That explains the eerie similarities, coupled to irresolvable discrepancies.</p>
<p>There&#39;s public access to voting information for the same &#8220;reason&#8221; as many other social rules:  it&#39;s just an unfolding of the history of the activity.  At the time of the Founding Fathers, not only was whether you voted a public issue, but so was WHO YOU VOTED FOR, since the secret ballot was unknown.</p>
<p>Since voting started out as a public act, the extension of privacy rights has been halting and erratic, implemented only when prompted only by some specific, over-riding concern.  (Voter registration and secret ballots were imposed to break the urban machines, for example.)  As a result, a surprising amount of information is available about individuals&#39; political actions.  In many states &#8211; not Michigan &#8211; every choice of party ballot in a primary is carefully recorded and disclosed.</p>
<p>Sorry this is so far off topic, but I suppose it&#39;s the expression of my repressed response to all the fascinating points raised in the rest of this thread.</p>
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		<title>By: ebrayton</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/22440/grebner-lawsuit-highlights-recent-pattern-of-young-republican-scandals/comment-page-1#comment-7686</link>
		<dc:creator>ebrayton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michiganmessenger.com/?p=22440#comment-7686</guid>
		<description>Thank you for outing the voting patterns of my uncle (not me, because Ed is not my proper name). I honestly can&#039;t understand why you or anyone else has access to how anyone votes. A person&#039;s votes should be absolutely protected and private. They go to all that trouble at the polling places to protect such data, giving every person a privacy sleeve to make sure the person next to them can&#039;t see how they vote, then they hand that information over to others. In my opinion, that should be criminal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for outing the voting patterns of my uncle (not me, because Ed is not my proper name). I honestly can&#39;t understand why you or anyone else has access to how anyone votes. A person&#39;s votes should be absolutely protected and private. They go to all that trouble at the polling places to protect such data, giving every person a privacy sleeve to make sure the person next to them can&#39;t see how they vote, then they hand that information over to others. In my opinion, that should be criminal.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: MarkGrebner</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/22440/grebner-lawsuit-highlights-recent-pattern-of-young-republican-scandals/comment-page-1#comment-7683</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkGrebner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michiganmessenger.com/?p=22440#comment-7683</guid>
		<description>Finally - something I can comment on!  (I&#039;ve been reading everything with interest, but I&#039;m sure everyone understands if I don&#039;t discuss the lawsuit.)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The only Ed Brayton I can find on Michigan&#039;s voter rolls lives in Paris - the suburb of Big Rapids, that is.  If I&#039;ve got the right person, he votes in every even-year general election, but nothing else in the past ten years.  No political leanings are discernible from the records I have.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That Ed Brayton is married, and his wife voted in the Republican presidential primary 18 months ago, and I have her coded as pro-environment.  It&#039;s not always safe to impute one spouse&#039;s political views to the other, but it&#039;s not a bad bet to do so.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My considered judgment is that Ed is not very interested in local or statewide politics, but is conscientious enough to vote when he knows what he&#039;s doing and he thinks his vote counts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally &#8211; something I can comment on!  (I&#39;ve been reading everything with interest, but I&#39;m sure everyone understands if I don&#39;t discuss the lawsuit.)</p>
<p>The only Ed Brayton I can find on Michigan&#39;s voter rolls lives in Paris &#8211; the suburb of Big Rapids, that is.  If I&#39;ve got the right person, he votes in every even-year general election, but nothing else in the past ten years.  No political leanings are discernible from the records I have.</p>
<p>That Ed Brayton is married, and his wife voted in the Republican presidential primary 18 months ago, and I have her coded as pro-environment.  It&#39;s not always safe to impute one spouse&#39;s political views to the other, but it&#39;s not a bad bet to do so.</p>
<p>My considered judgment is that Ed is not very interested in local or statewide politics, but is conscientious enough to vote when he knows what he&#39;s doing and he thinks his vote counts.</p>
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		<title>By: EricBee</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/22440/grebner-lawsuit-highlights-recent-pattern-of-young-republican-scandals/comment-page-1#comment-7676</link>
		<dc:creator>EricBee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 12:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michiganmessenger.com/?p=22440#comment-7676</guid>
		<description>As usual, Chetly, you&#039;re trying to make this into something that it is clearly not.  At issue isn&#039;t whether Osama bin Laden&#039;s rhetoric is acceptable in 65 years, but whether someone&#039;s attitudes (or those of an entire political party) can be accurately judged based on something said a long time ago.  You said it yourself, it would be unfair to call me a homophobe because of something I said just two decades ago; yet, you seem to think it&#039;s okay to judge the entire Democratic Party based on something Robert Byrd said before the Civil Rights movement.  So, I guess a thank you is in order to you for making my point for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As usual, Chetly, you&#39;re trying to make this into something that it is clearly not.  At issue isn&#39;t whether Osama bin Laden&#39;s rhetoric is acceptable in 65 years, but whether someone&#39;s attitudes (or those of an entire political party) can be accurately judged based on something said a long time ago.  You said it yourself, it would be unfair to call me a homophobe because of something I said just two decades ago; yet, you seem to think it&#39;s okay to judge the entire Democratic Party based on something Robert Byrd said before the Civil Rights movement.  So, I guess a thank you is in order to you for making my point for me.</p>
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