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	<title>Comments on: At Walleye Fest, many unaware of toxic danger under their feet</title>
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	<description>The Michigan Messenger is a local news site covering politics and policy throughout Michigan.  Its team delivers original reporting daily.  The Michigan Messenger is published by the nonpartisan and nonprofit group American Independent News Network.</description>
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		<title>By: lyle and scott cheap</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/17767/at-walleye-fest-many-unaware-of-toxic-danger-under-their-feet/comment-page-1#comment-42194</link>
		<dc:creator>lyle and scott cheap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Aug 2011 04:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michiganmessenger.com/?p=17767#comment-42194</guid>
		<description>Its really a very interesting posting indeed. Thanks for sharing such interesting posting with us.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its really a very interesting posting indeed. Thanks for sharing such interesting posting with us.</p>
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		<title>By: innova</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/17767/at-walleye-fest-many-unaware-of-toxic-danger-under-their-feet/comment-page-1#comment-17335</link>
		<dc:creator>innova</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michiganmessenger.com/?p=17767#comment-17335</guid>
		<description>It is nice that you brought up this issue. You&#039;ve mentioned that they also conducted a poker tournament on one of the Chevrolet dealership. I think to further prevent the spread of this toxic danger, the Chevrolet dealership you&#039;ve mentioned and all other establishments which became part of the festivities should be informed by the local government regarding this matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is nice that you brought up this issue. You&#39;ve mentioned that they also conducted a poker tournament on one of the Chevrolet dealership. I think to further prevent the spread of this toxic danger, the Chevrolet dealership you&#39;ve mentioned and all other establishments which became part of the festivities should be informed by the local government regarding this matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Engine Mount Cap</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/17767/at-walleye-fest-many-unaware-of-toxic-danger-under-their-feet/comment-page-1#comment-11328</link>
		<dc:creator>Engine Mount Cap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 02:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michiganmessenger.com/?p=17767#comment-11328</guid>
		<description>It is nice that you brought up this issue. You&#039;ve mentioned that they also conducted a poker tournament on one of the Chevrolet dealership. I think to further prevent the spread of this toxic danger, the Chevrolet dealership you&#039;ve mentioned and all other establishments which became part of the festivities should be informed by the local government regarding this matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is nice that you brought up this issue. You&#39;ve mentioned that they also conducted a poker tournament on one of the Chevrolet dealership. I think to further prevent the spread of this toxic danger, the Chevrolet dealership you&#39;ve mentioned and all other establishments which became part of the festivities should be informed by the local government regarding this matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Inform</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/17767/at-walleye-fest-many-unaware-of-toxic-danger-under-their-feet/comment-page-1#comment-5970</link>
		<dc:creator>Inform</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 08:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michiganmessenger.com/?p=17767#comment-5970</guid>
		<description>Thanks Rivermink,&lt;br&gt;Those soil samples cannot be obtained through FOIA through the City of Midland which has them at an offsite attorneys office not subject to FOIA.  They have,however, been released through FOIA by the EPA .&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Just so you know, I wouldn&#039;t even have brought up my family&#039;s history in this area.  It was your assumption that I was some kind of an outsider and a play on that false belief  to try and put me in my place that I decided  to let you know you didn&#039;t know what you were talking about.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t blame Dow for all the problems here.  They are, however, responsible for the majority of contamination to the soils and river.  I have an issue with the public being deliberately manipulated by the omission of information and spin on existing studies to keep people uninformed and ignorant (lies of commission and omission).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Until next time, Rivermink.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Rivermink,<br />Those soil samples cannot be obtained through FOIA through the City of Midland which has them at an offsite attorneys office not subject to FOIA.  They have,however, been released through FOIA by the EPA .</p>
<p>Just so you know, I wouldn&#39;t even have brought up my family&#39;s history in this area.  It was your assumption that I was some kind of an outsider and a play on that false belief  to try and put me in my place that I decided  to let you know you didn&#39;t know what you were talking about.</p>
<p>I don&#39;t blame Dow for all the problems here.  They are, however, responsible for the majority of contamination to the soils and river.  I have an issue with the public being deliberately manipulated by the omission of information and spin on existing studies to keep people uninformed and ignorant (lies of commission and omission).</p>
<p>Until next time, Rivermink.</p>
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		<title>By: Rivermink</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/17767/at-walleye-fest-many-unaware-of-toxic-danger-under-their-feet/comment-page-1#comment-5951</link>
		<dc:creator>Rivermink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michiganmessenger.com/?p=17767#comment-5951</guid>
		<description>Freedom of information act.&lt;br&gt;You can get them...&lt;br&gt;Administration with anti-corporate views you can get their endorsement.&lt;br&gt;If you are so proud of your longevity in this area advertise it.&lt;br&gt;It&#039;s amazing with how long your family has been here and still have to blame a corporation for everything wrong in the world, that is fine.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Corporations are entitled to citizen rights, that is the law.  Most of them are schizophrenic people according the demands of their will, the wills of a unmanaged child.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Those afflictions you mention have been higher in this area but are decreasing on their per capita rating.  There are more factors involved than just one that is the cause of these serious issues.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I would never say that Dow has atoned, but I will say that they are working for it to be better.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If honesty and integrity are on your side then the cause will come forward and penance will be served.&lt;br&gt;Follow your heart and you will win.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As for me, my family, my friends, we will remain happy and serve a justice that is in front of us.  All is good, and good is a matter of perspective.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I have read two voices with the tag Inform on this blog.  You can hide behind these blogs, that is your choice, clearly you are the writer with your defense of info and what you want to present.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So I am correct.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As for now this is a dead issue.&lt;br&gt;The news rests in your hands if you are so aware of this information that is being with held.  If you know then it is your responsibility to bring it forward for justice, it may be yours alone.&lt;br&gt;I will wait for this news to arrive.  If it is intentionally being mis represented then the law will be on your side.&lt;br&gt;Rivermink out!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Freedom of information act.<br />You can get them&#8230;<br />Administration with anti-corporate views you can get their endorsement.<br />If you are so proud of your longevity in this area advertise it.<br />It&#39;s amazing with how long your family has been here and still have to blame a corporation for everything wrong in the world, that is fine.</p>
<p>Corporations are entitled to citizen rights, that is the law.  Most of them are schizophrenic people according the demands of their will, the wills of a unmanaged child.</p>
<p>Those afflictions you mention have been higher in this area but are decreasing on their per capita rating.  There are more factors involved than just one that is the cause of these serious issues.  </p>
<p>I would never say that Dow has atoned, but I will say that they are working for it to be better.</p>
<p>If honesty and integrity are on your side then the cause will come forward and penance will be served.<br />Follow your heart and you will win.</p>
<p>As for me, my family, my friends, we will remain happy and serve a justice that is in front of us.  All is good, and good is a matter of perspective.</p>
<p>I have read two voices with the tag Inform on this blog.  You can hide behind these blogs, that is your choice, clearly you are the writer with your defense of info and what you want to present.</p>
<p>So I am correct.</p>
<p>As for now this is a dead issue.<br />The news rests in your hands if you are so aware of this information that is being with held.  If you know then it is your responsibility to bring it forward for justice, it may be yours alone.<br />I will wait for this news to arrive.  If it is intentionally being mis represented then the law will be on your side.<br />Rivermink out!</p>
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		<title>By: Inform</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/17767/at-walleye-fest-many-unaware-of-toxic-danger-under-their-feet/comment-page-1#comment-5949</link>
		<dc:creator>Inform</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michiganmessenger.com/?p=17767#comment-5949</guid>
		<description>Rivermink,&lt;br&gt;Parts of your writing are somewhat incoherent.  For example, you speak of &quot;my article&quot;.  I don&#039;t understand this-are you assuming I&#039;m the writer of these pieces?  That would be incorrect.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I am well aware of the Natural Resource Damage Assessment being completed for the region secondary to contamination of a variety of toxins and adverse effects on the environment as a result from Dow.  I&#039;m also quite aware of the health stats in this area and also their limitations in missing people who die out of the area after retiring or moving.  I&#039;m familiar with the Midland Health Department&#039;s flawed study that had issues with cohorts and dilution-in essence validity.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m also familiar with soil samples that are being kept from the public in the City of Midland by being sequestered at a private attorney&#039;s office not subject to FOIA.  Oh, I&#039;ve seen the Dow studies from decades ago, as well, that have been misrepresented.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So while you may feel Dow has atoned for the damage they wrought on this area, I do not.  They&#039;ve dragged their feet in cleaning up the dioxin contaminated watershed for decades-all with politician approval and support.  I will say that Dow most certainly has improved their emissions and waste practices as a result of requirements by the EPA and DEQ.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This area has higher breast cancer and diabetes rates.  Lymphoma rates are also interesting.  A certain zipcode has higher overall cancer rates (priority one area). I&#039;m actually in the process of doing a comparative analysis from the stats available.  There isn&#039;t reportable miscarraige information so that data is unavailable for analysis.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The report from U of M was a completely different study than was done by MSU so I don&#039;t even understand how you can logically possibly compare them.  The U of M study looked at the dioxin blood levels between two populations-those in the Midland Plume/Floodplain and those in Jackson/Calhoun and not health impacts.  The MSU study evaluates wildlife of the floodplain and whether they have problems that have been identified in other studies i.e.  lesions in mink, weights, etc.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I really resent your implications of my being a newcomer to this area in your preceeding post (where I come from, if your family hasn&#039;t been here for at least 150 years, you&#039;re considered a newcomer) and also your accusation that shame should come to me secondary to fearmongering when I present facts.  I also find it interesting you assigned an arbitrary number of years my family has been here along with an ethnicity and I believe a slam on Native Americans by mentioning reservations and free education.  I also resent your questioning my honesty, when I present facts vs gobblygook and lies on what studies demonstrate. I suspect I have  much more information than you, who wishes to minimize the contamination of the area and shame people into not promoting public health and accountability for a solution to this mess which has essentially been allowed to languish for decades.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m glad that you follow fish advisories by the way.  Personally, I wouldn&#039;t eat a thing from that river down from the Dow Dam.  Dow has an obligation to post accurate signs at that park with respect to fish consumption advisories and dioxin.  Your justifying them not doing so is abominable to me and others who value science and the public&#039;s right to information protective of their health.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You speak of Dow as though it a person with a conscience.  It is a corporation not a person.  It&#039;s interests are in making money for stockholders.  That corporation has been heavily involved in lobbying and protecting it&#039;s financial interests.  The longer cleanup is delayed, the better for their pocketbook.  It is unacceptable that this contamination has existed for decades without a remedy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rivermink,<br />Parts of your writing are somewhat incoherent.  For example, you speak of &#8220;my article&#8221;.  I don&#39;t understand this-are you assuming I&#39;m the writer of these pieces?  That would be incorrect.</p>
<p>I am well aware of the Natural Resource Damage Assessment being completed for the region secondary to contamination of a variety of toxins and adverse effects on the environment as a result from Dow.  I&#39;m also quite aware of the health stats in this area and also their limitations in missing people who die out of the area after retiring or moving.  I&#39;m familiar with the Midland Health Department&#39;s flawed study that had issues with cohorts and dilution-in essence validity.  </p>
<p>I&#39;m also familiar with soil samples that are being kept from the public in the City of Midland by being sequestered at a private attorney&#39;s office not subject to FOIA.  Oh, I&#39;ve seen the Dow studies from decades ago, as well, that have been misrepresented.</p>
<p>So while you may feel Dow has atoned for the damage they wrought on this area, I do not.  They&#39;ve dragged their feet in cleaning up the dioxin contaminated watershed for decades-all with politician approval and support.  I will say that Dow most certainly has improved their emissions and waste practices as a result of requirements by the EPA and DEQ.  </p>
<p>This area has higher breast cancer and diabetes rates.  Lymphoma rates are also interesting.  A certain zipcode has higher overall cancer rates (priority one area). I&#39;m actually in the process of doing a comparative analysis from the stats available.  There isn&#39;t reportable miscarraige information so that data is unavailable for analysis.</p>
<p>The report from U of M was a completely different study than was done by MSU so I don&#39;t even understand how you can logically possibly compare them.  The U of M study looked at the dioxin blood levels between two populations-those in the Midland Plume/Floodplain and those in Jackson/Calhoun and not health impacts.  The MSU study evaluates wildlife of the floodplain and whether they have problems that have been identified in other studies i.e.  lesions in mink, weights, etc.</p>
<p>I really resent your implications of my being a newcomer to this area in your preceeding post (where I come from, if your family hasn&#39;t been here for at least 150 years, you&#39;re considered a newcomer) and also your accusation that shame should come to me secondary to fearmongering when I present facts.  I also find it interesting you assigned an arbitrary number of years my family has been here along with an ethnicity and I believe a slam on Native Americans by mentioning reservations and free education.  I also resent your questioning my honesty, when I present facts vs gobblygook and lies on what studies demonstrate. I suspect I have  much more information than you, who wishes to minimize the contamination of the area and shame people into not promoting public health and accountability for a solution to this mess which has essentially been allowed to languish for decades.</p>
<p>I&#39;m glad that you follow fish advisories by the way.  Personally, I wouldn&#39;t eat a thing from that river down from the Dow Dam.  Dow has an obligation to post accurate signs at that park with respect to fish consumption advisories and dioxin.  Your justifying them not doing so is abominable to me and others who value science and the public&#39;s right to information protective of their health.  </p>
<p>You speak of Dow as though it a person with a conscience.  It is a corporation not a person.  It&#39;s interests are in making money for stockholders.  That corporation has been heavily involved in lobbying and protecting it&#39;s financial interests.  The longer cleanup is delayed, the better for their pocketbook.  It is unacceptable that this contamination has existed for decades without a remedy.</p>
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		<title>By: Rivermink</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/17767/at-walleye-fest-many-unaware-of-toxic-danger-under-their-feet/comment-page-1#comment-5947</link>
		<dc:creator>Rivermink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 19:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michiganmessenger.com/?p=17767#comment-5947</guid>
		<description>Inform,&lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t deny that the report says what it does.  The report which is older than the MSU study may show these results.  The MSU study was done to show its impact upon the enviroment.  The 30,000 plus data samples gathered over 4 yrs show that the evidence of the impact upon the enviroment.  Which shows with concrete evidence that there is NO impact upon the enviroment.  There is no crossover effect upon the fish the birds, the mink or the otter.  &lt;br&gt;With my observation, I have witnesses more fish being caught each year in our tournament, I have seen many birds that I never knew were even around here, I have seen so many otter and mink that I was spell bound that they even existed here, knowing the history of the river.&lt;br&gt;If you say that people and animals and the enviroment have more of this substance that is undisputable and I wouldn&#039;t even contend against it.  What I have stated is what is the result?&lt;br&gt;What has it done?&lt;br&gt;Where is the evidence?&lt;br&gt;Yes it may be more in this area, just like any other part of the globe people often reflect the enviroment and its positive and negative affects upon them.&lt;br&gt;We have Dow, the bad Dow from the past, today they have changed, they are working to improve.  I have seen info and have witnessed that it has improved.  Is it the way it should be, no, but it is getting better.&lt;br&gt;If your family has lived here for 300 years then maybe you should go and live on the reservation and capitalize from free education and find a course of study that may be able to clean this river to your standards.&lt;br&gt;I highly encourage that you find this path for it would be more honest.&lt;br&gt;As for today and spinning information to excite a group of people who are susceptable to the fear mongering because they just don&#039;t know any better.  That is called deception and the shame falls upon you.&lt;br&gt;Assemble a group of people, please, gather them to your account and then go to Freeland to say what you want.&lt;br&gt;But be open that maybe, just maybe the firm stance that you hold may just have holes.  Your facts are true, but the fact remains IS the result.  The result is not seen or felt and there is a study that says exactly that, maybe you should familiarize yourself with that info and then start writing its result.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It doesn&#039;t matter what the answers are if the wrong questions are being asked.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Your questions are old hat, yesterdays news...&lt;br&gt;The right question is what we can do about this info?&lt;br&gt;Then look to Dow and the state and see that they are working to improve what has been done.&lt;br&gt;Then ask the people if they have seen the result of these data stats upon their families or their land.  Are they just responding to numbers or what the numbers mean.&lt;br&gt;Are they allowed to define what those numbers mean to them instead of the state who again is interested in gaining wealth from a very successful corporation and the life source of this area and its people whom they employ to make this area a place where people want to live.&lt;br&gt;Not to defend Dow as my employer because they are not, but to defend them on everything they have done for this area good and bad.  I know about their history, but I live in the present and I see all that they are doing in the here in now to ammend that history and make tomorrow a better place for everyone.&lt;br&gt;Maybe your next interview should be with the state and ask them how they have mishandled the money that Dow gave them to their speciffic request to put signs on the river and they didn&#039;t achieve that goal and came back and asked Dow for more money...&lt;br&gt;Dow said no and rightfully so...&lt;br&gt;Again another exposed spin in your article that has been misrepresented by yourself and the state...&lt;br&gt;So we all have more of this poison than other people, but maybe we are immune to it by now?&lt;br&gt;Maybe that is why we aren&#039;t dropping like flies in the sun according to these numbers presented.&lt;br&gt;This as it stands is not an assumption, because as it stands it is more true to the life that lives than the fear that is presented.&lt;br&gt;Prove me wrong...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Inform,<br />I don&#39;t deny that the report says what it does.  The report which is older than the MSU study may show these results.  The MSU study was done to show its impact upon the enviroment.  The 30,000 plus data samples gathered over 4 yrs show that the evidence of the impact upon the enviroment.  Which shows with concrete evidence that there is NO impact upon the enviroment.  There is no crossover effect upon the fish the birds, the mink or the otter.  <br />With my observation, I have witnesses more fish being caught each year in our tournament, I have seen many birds that I never knew were even around here, I have seen so many otter and mink that I was spell bound that they even existed here, knowing the history of the river.<br />If you say that people and animals and the enviroment have more of this substance that is undisputable and I wouldn&#39;t even contend against it.  What I have stated is what is the result?<br />What has it done?<br />Where is the evidence?<br />Yes it may be more in this area, just like any other part of the globe people often reflect the enviroment and its positive and negative affects upon them.<br />We have Dow, the bad Dow from the past, today they have changed, they are working to improve.  I have seen info and have witnessed that it has improved.  Is it the way it should be, no, but it is getting better.<br />If your family has lived here for 300 years then maybe you should go and live on the reservation and capitalize from free education and find a course of study that may be able to clean this river to your standards.<br />I highly encourage that you find this path for it would be more honest.<br />As for today and spinning information to excite a group of people who are susceptable to the fear mongering because they just don&#39;t know any better.  That is called deception and the shame falls upon you.<br />Assemble a group of people, please, gather them to your account and then go to Freeland to say what you want.<br />But be open that maybe, just maybe the firm stance that you hold may just have holes.  Your facts are true, but the fact remains IS the result.  The result is not seen or felt and there is a study that says exactly that, maybe you should familiarize yourself with that info and then start writing its result.</p>
<p>It doesn&#39;t matter what the answers are if the wrong questions are being asked.</p>
<p>Your questions are old hat, yesterdays news&#8230;<br />The right question is what we can do about this info?<br />Then look to Dow and the state and see that they are working to improve what has been done.<br />Then ask the people if they have seen the result of these data stats upon their families or their land.  Are they just responding to numbers or what the numbers mean.<br />Are they allowed to define what those numbers mean to them instead of the state who again is interested in gaining wealth from a very successful corporation and the life source of this area and its people whom they employ to make this area a place where people want to live.<br />Not to defend Dow as my employer because they are not, but to defend them on everything they have done for this area good and bad.  I know about their history, but I live in the present and I see all that they are doing in the here in now to ammend that history and make tomorrow a better place for everyone.<br />Maybe your next interview should be with the state and ask them how they have mishandled the money that Dow gave them to their speciffic request to put signs on the river and they didn&#39;t achieve that goal and came back and asked Dow for more money&#8230;<br />Dow said no and rightfully so&#8230;<br />Again another exposed spin in your article that has been misrepresented by yourself and the state&#8230;<br />So we all have more of this poison than other people, but maybe we are immune to it by now?<br />Maybe that is why we aren&#39;t dropping like flies in the sun according to these numbers presented.<br />This as it stands is not an assumption, because as it stands it is more true to the life that lives than the fear that is presented.<br />Prove me wrong&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Inform</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/17767/at-walleye-fest-many-unaware-of-toxic-danger-under-their-feet/comment-page-1#comment-5903</link>
		<dc:creator>Inform</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 21:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michiganmessenger.com/?p=17767#comment-5903</guid>
		<description>Rivermink,&lt;br&gt;The U of M study, as previously mentioned in another link you responded to by sarcasm, showed the following below.  They did not look at health impacts. As an aside, Leonard misrepresented the results of that study for some strange reason:&lt;br&gt;Key Study Findings About Blood&lt;br&gt;&quot;Eating fish from the Tittabawassee River, Saginaw River, and Saginaw Bay also leads to higher levels of dioxins in blood&quot;&lt;br&gt;&quot;People who live in some regions of Midland/Saginaw have higher levels of dioxin in their blood than people in Jackson/Calhoun&quot;&lt;br&gt;&quot;People who have higher dioxin in their soil, have a higher TEQ and higher levels of some dioxins in their blood&quot;&lt;br&gt;&quot;People who have higher levels of dioxins in their household dust have higher levels of one of the specifi dioxins (PCB-118) in their blood&quot;&lt;br&gt;&quot;In some cases there is a direct relationship between higher levels of dioxins in soil and higher levels of dioxins in peopl&#039;s blood. This relationship is small and applies to some, but not all of the specific dioxins&quot;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Other factors, some of which are related to contamination in Midland/Saginaw are more important than living on properties with contaminated soil or with contaminated household dust. These include eating fish, recreational activities, and occupation.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&quot;People who eat fish from the Tittabawassee River, Saginaw River, and Saginaw Bay have higher levels of dioxins in their blood than people who do not eat fish from these areas. Most of these people live in Midland/Saginaw&quot;.&lt;br&gt;&quot;People who do recreational activities in the Tittabawassee River, Saginaw River and Saginaw Bay have higher levels of dioxins in their blood than people who do not do recreational activities in these area&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m not as well versed in the Michigan State studies.  However, am aware of other peer reviewed scientific studies showing abnormalities in various wildlife with respect to dioxin/furans.  What would be interesting to see would be if the Michigan State studies are considered an anomaly with a review of the scientific literature.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I do not recall stating that the river had not improved from decades ago so don&#039;t quite understand why you brought up such a defense.  Furthermore, I do not recall stating there aren&#039;t other contaminants in that river/watershed.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I note the following from your post and am amazed at the assumptions you made (there&#039;s a saying about assumptions, you know):&lt;br&gt;You wrote: &quot;So don&#039;t even pretend that you KNOW more than we do, do not talk about OUR area as if YOU know and we don&#039;t. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My family has been in this area, your area, for hundreds of years-before Dow came to visit by the way.  So don&#039;t get all holier than though regarding my not knowing this area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rivermink,<br />The U of M study, as previously mentioned in another link you responded to by sarcasm, showed the following below.  They did not look at health impacts. As an aside, Leonard misrepresented the results of that study for some strange reason:<br />Key Study Findings About Blood<br />&#8220;Eating fish from the Tittabawassee River, Saginaw River, and Saginaw Bay also leads to higher levels of dioxins in blood&#8221;<br />&#8220;People who live in some regions of Midland/Saginaw have higher levels of dioxin in their blood than people in Jackson/Calhoun&#8221;<br />&#8220;People who have higher dioxin in their soil, have a higher TEQ and higher levels of some dioxins in their blood&#8221;<br />&#8220;People who have higher levels of dioxins in their household dust have higher levels of one of the specifi dioxins (PCB-118) in their blood&#8221;<br />&#8220;In some cases there is a direct relationship between higher levels of dioxins in soil and higher levels of dioxins in peopl&#39;s blood. This relationship is small and applies to some, but not all of the specific dioxins&#8221;<br />&#8220;Other factors, some of which are related to contamination in Midland/Saginaw are more important than living on properties with contaminated soil or with contaminated household dust. These include eating fish, recreational activities, and occupation.&#8221;<br />&#8220;People who eat fish from the Tittabawassee River, Saginaw River, and Saginaw Bay have higher levels of dioxins in their blood than people who do not eat fish from these areas. Most of these people live in Midland/Saginaw&#8221;.<br />&#8220;People who do recreational activities in the Tittabawassee River, Saginaw River and Saginaw Bay have higher levels of dioxins in their blood than people who do not do recreational activities in these area&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#39;m not as well versed in the Michigan State studies.  However, am aware of other peer reviewed scientific studies showing abnormalities in various wildlife with respect to dioxin/furans.  What would be interesting to see would be if the Michigan State studies are considered an anomaly with a review of the scientific literature.</p>
<p>I do not recall stating that the river had not improved from decades ago so don&#39;t quite understand why you brought up such a defense.  Furthermore, I do not recall stating there aren&#39;t other contaminants in that river/watershed.</p>
<p>I note the following from your post and am amazed at the assumptions you made (there&#39;s a saying about assumptions, you know):<br />You wrote: &#8220;So don&#39;t even pretend that you KNOW more than we do, do not talk about OUR area as if YOU know and we don&#39;t. </p>
<p>My family has been in this area, your area, for hundreds of years-before Dow came to visit by the way.  So don&#39;t get all holier than though regarding my not knowing this area.</p>
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		<title>By: Rivermink</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/17767/at-walleye-fest-many-unaware-of-toxic-danger-under-their-feet/comment-page-1#comment-5898</link>
		<dc:creator>Rivermink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michiganmessenger.com/?p=17767#comment-5898</guid>
		<description>Mike, I speak only of the Tittabawasee river.  You yourself can go and talk to anyone who fishes in the Saginaw river and into the Bay and ask them if they are afraid of eating the fish they catch.  I have eaten many meals from those areas and have even fed them to my wife and children.  Nothing has happened, no vomitting, no cancer.  I have known people that have fished those areas for over 40 to 50yrs, during the time of the worst contamination levels, and they do not have cancer either.&lt;br&gt;I agree with the warnings of the levels and the amount of fish we should eat and I myself have followed every warning.  So the fish and waters ARE safe, they aren&#039;t pristine, but they are safe.  &lt;br&gt;Keep your fear to yourself, and the Lion&#039;s club will feel no shame on this matter or according to the hats, we feel responsibly committed to this issue and we know that it is serious, but not as serious as some would like to portray, like the state who&#039;s only intent is not only for the safety of its citizens, but to change rules to gather it more wealth, especially in a state of trouble as it now lives.&lt;br&gt;Dow has been convicted, they are trying to make ammends, but the state will not release its will upon its self defined gravy train.  Maybe the state could have been more involved long ago and we wouldn&#039;t even have this conversation.&lt;br&gt;Maybe you can give me a fact of indisputable evidence according to the dioxin levels in the animals and its impact upon the enviroment, how its in our water supply and people are dying from it.  Then the Lion&#039;s will feel the shame, until then maybe it is you who want to believe so much that the world is dying around them and forget about the life that does exist and the good that is around and hope for tomorrow to be better through action.  That very same action Dow is involved in right now.  Stop living in the past and look for tomorrow, stop whinning about yesterday and move into today where WE need your passion, use that energy to come with ways to make the hope for tomorrow real.&lt;br&gt;The world IS alive, and within that life is a whole lot of good, part of that good the Freeland Lion&#039;s club is positioned to act for tomorrow&#039;s hope, whether you believe that or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, I speak only of the Tittabawasee river.  You yourself can go and talk to anyone who fishes in the Saginaw river and into the Bay and ask them if they are afraid of eating the fish they catch.  I have eaten many meals from those areas and have even fed them to my wife and children.  Nothing has happened, no vomitting, no cancer.  I have known people that have fished those areas for over 40 to 50yrs, during the time of the worst contamination levels, and they do not have cancer either.<br />I agree with the warnings of the levels and the amount of fish we should eat and I myself have followed every warning.  So the fish and waters ARE safe, they aren&#39;t pristine, but they are safe.  <br />Keep your fear to yourself, and the Lion&#39;s club will feel no shame on this matter or according to the hats, we feel responsibly committed to this issue and we know that it is serious, but not as serious as some would like to portray, like the state who&#39;s only intent is not only for the safety of its citizens, but to change rules to gather it more wealth, especially in a state of trouble as it now lives.<br />Dow has been convicted, they are trying to make ammends, but the state will not release its will upon its self defined gravy train.  Maybe the state could have been more involved long ago and we wouldn&#39;t even have this conversation.<br />Maybe you can give me a fact of indisputable evidence according to the dioxin levels in the animals and its impact upon the enviroment, how its in our water supply and people are dying from it.  Then the Lion&#39;s will feel the shame, until then maybe it is you who want to believe so much that the world is dying around them and forget about the life that does exist and the good that is around and hope for tomorrow to be better through action.  That very same action Dow is involved in right now.  Stop living in the past and look for tomorrow, stop whinning about yesterday and move into today where WE need your passion, use that energy to come with ways to make the hope for tomorrow real.<br />The world IS alive, and within that life is a whole lot of good, part of that good the Freeland Lion&#39;s club is positioned to act for tomorrow&#39;s hope, whether you believe that or not.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeLily</title>
		<link>http://michiganmessenger.com/17767/at-walleye-fest-many-unaware-of-toxic-danger-under-their-feet/comment-page-1#comment-5892</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeLily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michiganmessenger.com/?p=17767#comment-5892</guid>
		<description>OH but that this were just an issue for Frreeland. But it is not. It is an issue for the Tittabawassee River, Saginaw River and Saginaw Bay. It is not just dioxin and furans but a whole host of other chemicals produced by Dow that are moving to Lake Huron......Would suggest folks look beyond the studies paid for by Dow Chemical for information on these chemicals in the river. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Shame on the Lions Clubs for donning those hats which read dioxin my ass. Veterans are compensated for diabetes and subsequent blindness from exposure to agent orange/dioxin during service in the Vietnam War. We all know the good work Lions Clubs do for the blind- they are to be commended. Too bad the Freeland&#039;s Lions Club is so short sighted because it undermines the good work I am sure they do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OH but that this were just an issue for Frreeland. But it is not. It is an issue for the Tittabawassee River, Saginaw River and Saginaw Bay. It is not just dioxin and furans but a whole host of other chemicals produced by Dow that are moving to Lake Huron&#8230;&#8230;Would suggest folks look beyond the studies paid for by Dow Chemical for information on these chemicals in the river. </p>
<p>Shame on the Lions Clubs for donning those hats which read dioxin my ass. Veterans are compensated for diabetes and subsequent blindness from exposure to agent orange/dioxin during service in the Vietnam War. We all know the good work Lions Clubs do for the blind- they are to be commended. Too bad the Freeland&#39;s Lions Club is so short sighted because it undermines the good work I am sure they do.</p>
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