Comments on: Uncertainty clouds plan to extract biofuel from Michigan’s forests

By: allstihl24

allstihl24 — Tue, 19 May 2009 03:39:03 +0000

I live in the eastern U.P. and much of it is wet and protected but my concern is how about the ones who heat with would like me will I have to fight for it. I cut all my own wood my self I pull a forest permit every year and make enough wood for the winter are they going to stop selling me a permit. Many of us up here can't afford propane or fuel oil so we cut are own wood for heat and a company like this could out bid even the local foresters on goverment contracted wood plots. Then they won't have wood to sell to the local people around them and when they do get there hands on some wood the cost will be jacked up for a face cord. So really is anyone looking at the big picture here. I'm all for cheaper and better fuel but I'm sick of the quick fix bull that never works out Kinda like the NAFTA bill that worked out great all our jobs left the US so I just hope they are thinking about everything and not just there pockets.

By: About That Logistics Problem | Eco Friendly Mag

About That Logistics Problem | Eco Friendly Mag — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 23:45:53 +0000

[...] From Wood, Be Sure You Have Wood That’s the lesson Michigan is learning as forestry experts question whether the state can grow enough timber to support what could be the nation’s first cellulosic ethanol plant [...]

By: bailcon

bailcon — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:35:31 +0000

Redbaron;
Thanks for the comments. The issues evolving out of this new event are just forming. Perhaps the biggest question is the totality of forest harvest for biofuel. The trouble is that Michigan has no idea how the sum total of the projects proposed, and yet to be proposed, will have on forest sustainability. And the Sierra Club asks that the answer precede the problem. There is also the question of value. Is this the best use of the investment, in manpower, taxes fees, and quite literally the land? How much value does a project like this really create? Are the forests more valuable as habitat, laboratories, tourist destinations? And are we managing forests toward farms?

Pat Egan

By: About That Logistics Problem | 1800blogger

About That Logistics Problem | 1800blogger — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:22:35 +0000

By: Rayne1

Rayne1 — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:35:31 +0000

What kinds of incentives/deterrents are there to encourage effective forestry management on private lands? As a forester you know there are studies which show that simply harvesting a limited amount of wood is not enough to ensure good wildlife management. What prevents a private owner from simply taking 30% of wood off his own woodlot without consideration for the rest of the ecosystem or for regrowth? Longyear could be an exception to the rule with regard to woodlot management.

Initially there was no information from Mascoma indicating they were limiting their cellulose harvest to whole logs. What if there is a shortage of whole logs -- do producers of cellulosic ethanol like Mascoma begin to look at "forest waste" including limbs, leaves, needles as part of the harvest?

And what if any incentives/deterrents are there in place to prevent excessive use of short-rotation wood crops, particularly near areas where wildlife may be more fragile? (I'm thinking of areas theoretically where Kirtland Warblers may have been sighted, jack pine stands in areas logged over the last 60 years.)

There are a lot more questions than ready answers. If you have some answers, feel free to share.

By: Rayne1

Rayne1 — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:15:35 +0000

Do the Porcupine Mountains ring a bell? Mount Ripley?

I've lived in Michigan for nearly 40 years and I know the terrain pretty well, was born here.

The problem with the eastern portion of the UP is described by Champlain at Louisiana Pacific; the easy wood is already becoming expensive, and putting more demand on these same resources will drive up the price, likely making one or both businesses (LP or Mascoma) untenable.

Is there a genuine effort to create more jobs or reduce carbon in the atmosphere or both? There doesn't seem to be a solid answer or commitment.

By: Redbaron

Redbaron — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:08:38 +0000

As a forester I am not for or against this project. I would point out that 691,000,000 cubic feet of wood is equal to over 500,000 standard cords of wood at 128 cf per cord. The actual number of cf of wood in a stacked cord is closer to 95 cf. So there seems to be an overrun of 125,000 cords per year based on the figures put forth. Also, in the South as well as Michigan and the rest of the country the majority of forest land is owned by private landowner not government or forest industry and these people have ,for years, been the backbone of the forest products industry. Good forest management is good wildlife management, good resource management and a commonsense way to deal with land ownership.
Also, all trees throughout their life cycle shed leaves, needles, limbs and fruit onto the forest floor and the majority of this biomass is created from water, air and sunlight. Better utilization may be a problem with a short rotation but in Michigan the normal rotation is long enough to produce plenty of biomass to rot back into the soil.

By: cinnamonfern

cinnamonfern — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:54:49 +0000

I've lived in Michigan my entire life (in a variety of locations across the state, including the UP), and I definitely would not classify any part of the state as mountainous. And although the western half of the UP is part of the Canadian shield and is quite hilly and rocky, the location that Mascoma will be getting most of their feedstock from is in the eastern half of the UP, which is very flat.

I agree that it will be important to develop harvesting methods that are sustainable in the long term. This is a key issue to those of us involved in lignocellulosic ethanol research. We have seen too many situations where people were not concerned with long-term consequences of their actions and ended up devastating the environment. Hopefully we will be able to learn from others' past mistakes and take steps during these beginning stages to develop a more sustainable industry.

By: Rayne1

Rayne1 — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:18:33 +0000

No, the UP is not flat. Check a topographic map, you'll see that much of it is actually mountainous.

Much of the land is also in private ownership, and even a good portion of that is in possession of entities who are intent on conservation.

Sustainability is definitely key, but assessing sustainability requires actually doing thorough and effective due diligence -- unlike the kind of due diligence that too many investment firms and banks have done for the last two decades.

We're not addressing fuel efficiency with regard to this series on Mascoma; we are only looking at the business proposition and the short- and long-term return on public investment.

By: Biofuelsimon

Biofuelsimon — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 14:47:05 +0000

Hi Rayne1,

Isn't the Michigan peninsula is flat, there are no insurmountable obstacles to building roads through it are there? So there should be no great difficulty in getting the wood to the plant.

If the price of the wood is high enough then people will harvest it and replant for future profits. Also the numbers are from 2005 (Global Boom Time) not 2009 (Depressions Ville) the amount of wood extracted during the bad times for building, paper etc is likely to be much lower than during good time. So having a new outlet for wood will keep the price up and encourage people to invest in Michigan's forests. Who grows any crop just to stand and look at it?

The key is to encourage them to do it sustainably isn't it? The point that you're all missing is fuel efficiency.